Jotungrip vs FAQ

[Fiery_Dervish]

With the new FAQ regarding two-handed weapons and power attack:

FAQ
Power Attack: If I am using a two-handed weapon with one hand (such as a lance while mounted), do still I get the +50% damage for using a two-handed weapon?

Yes.

Does this supersede Jotungrip or is jotungrip an exception to this new ruling?

Jotungrip (Ex)

At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like.

[HangarFlying]

No, the jotungrip description has not been superseded.

I think the general concensus is that the only weapon/ability/feat affected by this FAQ is the lance.

[Kazaan]

The FAQ establishes the default position. Jotungrip's specific exception still stands because specific trumps general. Furthermore, the presence of a specific exception clause in Jotungrip but not in other similar abilities allowing wielding of a 2-h weapon one-handed (ie. Staff Master, Thunder and Fang, etc) is telling in and of itself; no need for a specific exception to an inconsequential general rule. The fact that this ability wasn't phrased to wield "as a one-handed weapon" as some others are (and which would have bypassed the need for such an exception statement), but instead relied on a disclaimer indicates that differences between "as a one-handed weapon" and "in one hand" are merely stylistic differences and both refer to the same mechanical practice; and Jotungrip provides a specific exception to the general rule. Hence, any other abilities that allow wielding of a 2-h weapon in one hand, regardless of phrasing, default to the FAQ answer unless they have an exception clause as in Jotungrip.

[Ferious Thune]

Seems like it should apply to the Phalanx Soldier as well, since its ability has no such language about being treated as a one-handed weapon.

Phalanx Soldier wrote:

Phalanx Fighting (Ex)

At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1.

edit - looking at it again, I suppose "as a one-handed weapon" is such language, so nevermind.

Edited again - And now just saw Kazaan's post, so back to my original thought.

[Fiery_Dervish]

My thoughts were that as the FAQ came out more recently (June 2013) as opposed to when the Jotungrip rules were written (2011), it is setting a new precedent about two-handed weapons and therefore does this updated ruling change how two-handed weapons are handled (no pun intended).

[Kazaan]

The FAQ establishes a default that, in actuality, was there from the very start; we just weren't aware of it or discounted it. When an ability has an explicit exception, a general clarification doesn't trump it.

The previous assumption was that it was the number of hands on the weapon that determined qualification for the bonus to Power Attack. The FAQ clarifies that isn't the case; that it's the category of weapon that determines qualification for the bonus. Jotungrip then goes on to specify that, even though a two-handed weapon would normally give 1.5x Power Attack, it won't if wielded in 1 hand via Jotungrip; a specific exception to a general rule.

[D'arandriel]

Does this mean I could dual wield two small greatswords and get the 1.5x power attack bonus to damage? Seems ridiculous. They should have just made a specific exception for using a lance while mounted, and leave it at that.

[The Crusader]

No, because weapon size rules state that a two-handed weapon for a small sized character is a one-handed weapon for a medium sized character. Unaffected by the FAQ.

[Craig Frankum]

D'arandriel wrote:

They should have just made a specific exception for using a lance while mounted, and leave it at that.

I agree with that statement. I just don't see how the weight of a weapon justifies the 1.5 STR bonus while wielding said weapon in one hand. On the same not, one cannot wield a two-handed weapon in one hand unless specifically stated by a rule or feature (i.e. Phalanx Fighter and spear; lance while mount). So in effect, only in those circumstances does it apply. Mount with the lance has the speed of the horse to justify such a STR bonus and Phalanx Fighters have proven a technique that allows the shield to stabilize the spear. I solved my own dilemma.

[Kazaan]

Craig Frankum wrote:

D'arandriel wrote:

They should have just made a specific exception for using a lance while mounted, and leave it at that.

I agree with that statement. I just don't see how the weight of a weapon justifies the 1.5 STR bonus while wielding said weapon in one hand. On the same not, one cannot wield a two-handed weapon in one hand unless specifically stated by a rule or feature (i.e. Phalanx Fighter and spear; lance while mount). So in effect, only in those circumstances does it apply. Mount with the lance has the speed of the horse to justify such a STR bonus and Phalanx Fighters have proven a technique that allows the shield to stabilize the spear. I solved my own dilemma.

Other techniques can involve leveraging momentum from lateral and under-hand swings to compensate for the lack of "gravity force". It takes two hands for a good, strong overhand chop with a sword but by holding it behind you and swinging it sideways with a slight dip, you can get largely the same effect with only one hand using proper technique. The difference in Jotungrip is that it's basically not using any of those altered techniques to keep the same force when only using one hand; it's just straight up treating the greatsword as if it were no different and sacrificing the stabilization to properly guide the extra mass of the weapon. It's almost a barbarous way to use a large weapon.