Silent Image - Can the Figment Comprise Multiple Creatures / Humanoids?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

I did a search on this, but didn't find any thread that really addressed this. What I'm wondering is whether or not a figment can consist of multiple humanoid or creatures that fit within the maximum allowed area? The description for Silent Image states:

"This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect."

From my reading of that, multiple creatures should be possible, provided they all fit within the area which would be 7x10' cubes for my Sorcerer. As well, nothing in the description of a figment would seem to disallow it:

"A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).

Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly."

I'd like my 3rd level Sorcerer to be able use there Ghost Sound to make the sound of 12 creatures or humanoids and then follow it up with Silent Image to create a figment of that group of creatures/humanoids.


Yes, sort of.

pfsrd wrote:
"This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you."

which is technically a single image. Personally I don't see why part of your illusion can't be transparent but in my experience most GM's have problems with allowing too much from Silent Image and other illusion spells. This sort of thing is always up to your GM so have a talk with him/her before hand and get a feel for what they will allow. Hopefully you'll have someone who likes creativity. A good read (recommended by Treatmonk) is Rules of the Game: All About Illusions


I don't see how you can read it as allowing multiples. It says "this spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you."

It uses the singular.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So, a barrel of apples is out of the question?

What about an Ant Hill?

The Exchange

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, a barrel of apples is out of the question?

What about an Ant Hill?

An ant swarm might cover the bug part. Just have a small pile of dirt to put the image on.

Grand Lodge

What about an apple tree?

Can the tree have apples on it?


A barrel of apples is borderline. As written, no, but what GM would challenge it?

An appletree is an easy yes since the apples are part of the tree, whereas the apples are not part of the barrel.

Grand Lodge

Is a barrel of water two things?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Is a barrel of water two things?

A container and the contained would always be at least two things.

The system generally likes to include gear with creatures, but RAW you have to make your creatures naked, since it's not spelled out.

:)


Ask your GM. By RAW it *could* be taken to be a single "thing" (which means you can only create naked creatures...harem-no-jitsu?) I don't think most GM's play this way.

I have seen multiple cases where a single illusion creates multiple creatures in published material (it is a single squad/army :p). It is still a single illusion. The downside(upside?) is that if you disbelieve one, you disbelieve them all.

I don't believe is stifling player creativity. If they can come up with a really good illusion, then more power to them. The rule of cool prevails.

Grand Lodge

Well, we could define any item as a collection of atoms.


Ximen Bao wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Is a barrel of water two things?

A container and the contained would always be at least two things.

The system generally likes to include gear with creatures, but RAW you have to make your creatures naked, since it's not spelled out.

:)

Not really. Just because it LOOKS like a barrel with apples in it, doesn't mean it is. In fact, it definitely isn't. Those objects aren't removable, so they aren't separate.

Make an illusion of the ground with creatures on it would be one thing, imho, as long as everything has to remain touching. Just because people might misinterpret it as multiple things doesn't mean that it is.

That said, I believe most games I have played have not worried about the one object thing. Trying to be overly strict with it just raises a lot of questions and sows confusion.

Besides, it's really more stuff like using it as a duckblind so the ninja gets sneak attacks on all ranged attacks that's where the important questions lie.

Grand Lodge

So, an image of the Human Centipede is possible?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, an image of the Human Centipede is possible?

Eww. Not at my table. Geeze man, do an illusion of some unknowable Lovecraftian horror instead. But anything that you've seen that requires a save just based on how it LOOKS you can do -- so it seems. DC should be based off the spell DC though.

Hmm, by the way, the spell says you can make a force but doesn't remotely define what that means. Quite a few definitions of the word cover multiple bodies, such as a fighting force. Makes more sense than an image of gravity.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Silent Image - Can the Figment Comprise Multiple Creatures / Humanoids? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions