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Is the penalty for using an improvised weapon a non-proficiency penalty?
The weapon section notes:
Improvised Weapons
Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
Would thing like Improved Improvisation, Quick Learner, or Arms Master reduce this penalty?
Can we find any examples of an improvised weapon being used?
If the penalty is normally -8, then it would show a -4 non-proficiency penalty and the -4 improvised weapon penalty.
If the penalty is normally -4, then it would show the -4 that improvised weapons get IS the -4 non-proficiency penalty and the section is just worded vaguely.
I suspect without checking that the second case is true.
The way Throw Anything and Catch of Guard are phrases, it does not say anything about proficiency.
However, the penalty works absolutely identical to using a weapon without proficiency.
I say it's up to the GM to decide, unless there has been a statement from the writer.
I'd say they would, from what I can read of the abilities, but I agree it may not be crystal clear.
Can we find any examples of an improvised weapon being used?
If the penalty is normally -8, then it would show a -4 non-proficiency penalty and the -4 improvised weapon penalty.
If the penalty is normally -4, then it would show the -4 that improvised weapons get IS the -4 non-proficiency penalty and the section is just worded vaguely.
I suspect without checking that the second case is true.
There are exemples in adventure paths, most quickly RotR comes to mind (though that is 3.5, has the rules language changed?). In RotR the listed penalty for improvised weapons is 8 in total, not -4+-4.
The way Throw Anything and Catch of Guard are phrases, it does not say anything about proficiency.
However, the penalty works absolutely identical to using a weapon without proficiency.
I say it's up to the GM to decide, unless there has been a statement from the writer.
Improvised weapons says two things:
1. You are normally nonproficent in these weapons, which is normally a -4 penalty.
2. There is a -4 penalty to use them.
It stops just short of saying 2 is because of 1, but we can figure it out by seeing if there is one -4 penalty or two -4 penalties.
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There is no -8 to use improvised weapons.
The question is, if the -4, is a non-proficiency penalty, or not.
The Low Templar Dirty Fighting class feature implies as such.
This seems to be another example.
Perhaps there are more for, or against, this stance?
There are exemples in adventure paths, most quickly RotR comes to mind (though that is 3.5, has the rules language changed?). In RotR the listed penalty for improvised weapons is 8 in total, not -4+-4.
Just realized I made a nasty typo here. It should say the listed penalty is 4 in total, not 8.
I don't think it's a non-proficiency penalty. You don't get penalised for lacking skill, you get the penalty because what you're using isn't a weapon at all and therefore ill-suited to the task.
Untyped penalty from how I read it.
Should have been more specific. If its not a nonproficency it's I typed. I believe it's the former.
Afaik yes
I would say ask your DM.