Rapid Reload and repeating crossbows


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

can you take rapid reload on a repeating crossbow and if so does it apply to the reloading of the clip or just the lever reload?


doc the grey wrote:
can you take rapid reload on a repeating crossbow and if so does it apply to the reloading of the clip or just the lever reload?

No. Rapid Reload specifies the types of crossbows it works with (hand crossbows, light crossbows, and heavy crossbows. Repeating crossbows (both light and heavy) are not mentioned.


doc the grey wrote:
can you take rapid reload on a repeating crossbow and if so does it apply to the reloading of the clip or just the lever reload?

From the feat description, I would say no. It lowers the time required for a standard crossbow type, which is the same amount of time on a heavy crossbow, but faster on a light crossbow. For that matter, the Rapid reload feat and a light crossbow effectively make a regular light crossbow as fast as a repeating variety, but with an effectively larger magazine.

As a GM, i would have no problem allowing a character to take the feat in conjunction with a repeating crossbow allowing them the same speed shift as a heavy crossbow in regards to reloading (the clip). I would even go ahead and apply the feat to both the light and heavy repeating crossbow without having to take a separate feat for both. The rationale being that the feat alone for a regular light crossbow allows for more attacks in an extended combat than the repeating variety as well as both types presumably using similar enough loading techniques.

The feat would not have any effect on the reloading lever itself, as using the lever is a free action, and there isn't really anything faster than that in game terms... well, except maybe granting an extra action a la haste, but for extra attacks feats like rapid shot already have that covered

Sczarni

As a Ranger you can take Crossbow Mastery, without the prerequisites,, which should work on a Repeating Crossbow, but the reloading action would still provoke an AoO.

Crossbow Mastery (Combat) wrote:

You can load crossbows with blinding speed and even fire them in melee with little fear of reprisal.

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot.

Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow. Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.

Special: Starting at 6th level, a ranger with the archery combat style may select Crossbow Mastery as a combat style feat.

Emphasis is mine.

Shadow Lodge

Ohh that's such bull. Are you saying that to actually use a repeating crossbow i would have to either go ranger or just be sol? This needs errata like yesterday.


doc the grey wrote:
Ohh that's such bull. Are you saying that to actually use a repeating crossbow i would have to either go ranger or just be sol? This needs errata like yesterday.

No, anyone can take the feat. Rangers can just get it as a bonus feat.

That said, the Repeating Crossbow isn't worth it. You need a feat just to use it, then another feat to reload it quickly. Or you could use another crossbow and reload it quickly with just one feat.


Drachasor wrote:
You need a feat just to use it, then another feat to reload it quickly.

Huh? I could have sworn those thingies are perfectly usable without the proficiency feat; it's just that your aim might be suffering a tad...


Midnight_Angel wrote:
Drachasor wrote:
You need a feat just to use it, then another feat to reload it quickly.
Huh? I could have sworn those thingies are perfectly usable without the proficiency feat; it's just that your aim might be suffering a tad...

It's actually 4 decatads of suffering.

Shadow Lodge

The problem I have is with the concept of an exotic weapon that is a literal advancement on crossbows in every possible way being worse then a simple weapon. I mean why not just let it work on up'ing the reload type when putting in a new cli? I mean what imbalance is it creating? I'm already 1 feat invested into the repeater why not just let me use the feat for crossbows on a crossbow?


I'd say talk to your GM. RR is a terrible feat for a repeating c.bow user. Taking it purely to qualify for Crossbow Mastery is a harsh penalty for a combat style that is already struggling compared to bows.

Personally I'd suggest a house rule, maybe replacing the Rapid Reload requirement on Crossbow Mastery with Repeating Crossbow Proficiency.

If that doesn't fly, I'd see if I could get some custom designed bolt cases with more than five bolts in each magazine.

Or, you know, just use a bow.

Shadow Lodge

My problem isn't so much in my home games as it is for my pfs characters.


For PFS? The only thing the extra feat gets you is that you don't suffer an AoO between non-reloading fires. On a normal crossbow, you get an AoO for reloading and for firing.

Of course, Greater Crossbow Mastery gets rid of all that. So fundamentally the Exotic Weapon Proficiency is not worth it (as it isn't worth it for most exotic weapons even in PF).


Hm... You could use the repeating crossbow till you qualify for Crossbow Mastery, then retrain (U. camp to the rescue) the repeating crossbow proficiency feat into crossbow mastery? I don't know if PFS allows retraining though, I tend to avoid PFS like the plague.

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