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Okay, so I've looked trough the various threads on monster pc's, and I just have to say, with all the off topic arguing back and forth it gets really confusing. And the little actual useful info I find brings questions to mind about one of my favorite non-standard fantasy races; The Satyr.
So after some time bashing my head into my desk trying to figure this out, I'm breaking down and asking for help. Now I get that most monsters have the standard base stats of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10 but I'm not sure this holds true for satyrs, unless they really have a +8 charisma (which would be AWESOME, but I find it had to believe). Sooooo I'm gonna write down what I've got for the base creation stuff for a satyr pc. I won't add the PC class lvls, just use the stuff before adding the class lvls. If I'm wrong about something, please let me know. I just ask that you be polite about it. I'm not a genius who can calculate relative theory in my head, but I'm not a drooling idiot either.
Okay so figuring that they have a CR of 4, meaning that the character can be played at a minimum lvl of 5, here are the stats I have figured out (I know they are not in order I just don't care);
Str +4, Dex +4, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +8
8 racial HD (Fey) with 6+int skills points each and poor BAB (+4)
+5 natural armor
DR 5/ cold iron
Simple weapon and Short bow proficiency
Natural Attack- Horns (1d6+str if primary, or 1d6+1/2str with a -2 hit if secondary)
+4 perception, +4 perform, +4 stealth
Special Attack- Pipes DC= 10+1/2HD+cha
Spell-like abilities- CL 8th
At will- Charm Person, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Sleep, Suggestion
1/day- Fear, Summon Natures Ally III
So there ya go, please let me know if I'm wrong about anything. I'd also like to know if I only use the fey HD for the caster lvl and DC of the Pipes and spell-like abilities, or fey and character HD.
Please keep in mind that this is a public forum, so I cannot stress manners enough. Minors do have access to this after all.
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Yep, all that looks right. And it'd only be Fey HD for caster level and pipes.
They've debatably got too many racial HD to really be used as a PC race. I mean, it's not a huge deal combat-wise (though having 9 HD in a 5th level game is impressive), but the skills are going to be really unbalancingly good. Especially if you go, say, Bard.
They're certainly over what I'd allow. Anything that hass 2 or more HD above it's CR is, for this precise reason. Especially one of the good races, like Outsider or Monstrous Humanoid. Fey aren't as bad, but even so, 4 extra HD is simply too much.
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Yep, all that looks right. And it'd only be Fey HD for caster level and pipes.
They've debatably got too many racial HD to really be used as a PC race. I mean, it's not a huge deal combat-wise (though having 9 HD in a 5th level game is impressive), but the skills are going to be really unbalancingly good. Especially if you go, say, Bard.
A satyr bard? Nooooo, where on earth did you get that idea? I mean, what good is a satyr bard XD
Anyway, yeah. I agree that they got the big end of the mighty stick, but they are my favorite race to play. And in regards to the pipers... eh. Half satyrs aren't as cool as full. But as soon as I get the book, I'll take a look at them.
If and when the satyr (or any other monster race) is playable is entirely up to the GM.
Personally, I would not let anyone play a satyr as a 4th-level character. I'd probably require them to treat every racial HD as a level, at the least. In that case, the satyr would be playable alongside 8th-level humans and elves and such.
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If and when the satyr (or any other monster race) is playable is entirely up to the GM.
Personally, I would not let anyone play a satyr as a 4th-level character. I'd probably require them to treat every racial HD as a level, at the least. In that case, the satyr would be playable alongside 8th-level humans and elves and such.
Ah, but I did make mention that the satyr has a CR of 4, so the earliest you could play it without a special ruling is 5. Since the monster pc rules state that every three CHARACTER lvls that the party gets, the monster should be given an extra pc lvl up to half it's cr. So a satyr would effectively have a +4 lvl adjustment untill the party hit lvl 8, in which is would have a +3 with 5 class lvls. And then at Party lvl 11 have a +2 with 9 class lvls.
Yep, all that looks right. And it'd only be Fey HD for caster level and pipes.
They've debatably got too many racial HD to really be used as a PC race. I mean, it's not a huge deal combat-wise (though having 9 HD in a 5th level game is impressive), but the skills are going to be really unbalancingly good. Especially if you go, say, Bard.
A satyr bard? Nooooo, where on earth did you get that idea? I mean, what good is a satyr bard XD
Anyway, yeah. I agree that they got the big end of the mighty stick, but they are my favorite race to play. And in regards to the pipers... eh. Half satyrs aren't as cool as full. But as soon as I get the book, I'll take a look at them.
In our Kingmaker campaign, a recurring villain is a half-fiend satyr bard. And yes, since I am the only one in the campaign interested in its story and politics, whenever this creature pops into campaign he completely and utterly wrecks everything in sight. He drove a giant owlbear to destroy blocks of our city, easily charms my cleric (he levels with us, and the last time we met I only needed a 17 on the die to pass the save), and has been known to incite the nobility of neighboring countries to attack us.
If my GM allowed me to play a satyr bard, I would never make anything else. With those stats, you would not have to make anything else.
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Ah, but I did make mention that the satyr has a CR of 4, so the earliest you could play it without a special ruling is 5. Since the monster pc rules state that every three CHARACTER lvls that the party gets, the monster should be given an extra pc lvl up to half it's cr. So a satyr would effectively have a +4 lvl adjustment untill the party hit lvl 8, in which is would have a +3 with 5 class lvls. And then at Party lvl 11 have a +2 with 9 class lvls.
By the guidelines...yes. But those guidelines also necessitate GM approval. Which I would advise not giving for anything more than 1 HD above it's CR. Two at the outside. Stat mods can be made up for, and so can special abilities, but HD and their associated effects get really...odd. Like +11 Will and Reflex saves, +26 skill bonus in several skills, and 71 HP on average as a 6th level equivalent. All without trying hard.
I mean, I'm playing a Doppleganger Paladin in a game right now (long story), and that's close enough to being broken right there. I'm seriously worried about outshining the other PCs and there's not even much in the way of optimizing going on on that character (I took Breadth of Experience and Cosmpolitan on a Paladin, for God's sake!). Never mind something like a Satyr Bard (which is just going to be so much worse in almost every way).
Ah, but I did make mention that the satyr has a CR of 4, so the earliest you could play it without a special ruling is 5. Since the monster pc rules state that every three CHARACTER lvls that the party gets, the monster should be given an extra pc lvl up to half it's cr. So a satyr would effectively have a +4 lvl adjustment untill the party hit lvl 8, in which is would have a +3 with 5 class lvls. And then at Party lvl 11 have a +2 with 9 class lvls.If and when the satyr (or any other monster race) is playable is entirely up to the GM.
Personally, I would not let anyone play a satyr as a 4th-level character. I'd probably require them to treat every racial HD as a level, at the least. In that case, the satyr would be playable alongside 8th-level humans and elves and such.
You did read that stuff I wrote starting with "Personally". And the stuff the bestiary writes about monster PCs are guidelines - more so than other rules. It's totally up to the GM (I wrote that, too) whether he'll allow monstrous races, and if he does, what the effective character level will be.
And in my games, each HD would cost a level. ECL and CR are two completely different things and considering them to be the same can have disastrous results.