Animate Dead On Outsiders.

[detu maki]

Alright so im stuck in a campaign where almost all creatures i encounter worth animating are outsiders. My question is, can you use animate dead on outsiders?

My GM and I disagree about this, but have decided to kind of go by a consensus and see what others have to say. I've seen multiple threads but they all devolove into the same three arguments:

1. Animate Dead can't be cast on creatures unless they.meet the physical requirements of either a skeleton or zombie. Lets assume we're discussing one of the many kinds that meet these requirements.

2. Outsiders bodies and souls are one, and hence spells loke raise dead and reincarnation can't be used.to bring.them back to life. Since Animate Dead has nothing to do with the soul or returning it to life, merely animating an empty corpse, is this really the case? I don't believe so given there is nothing indicating it so in the books I have read.

3. Outsiders bodies dissipate when destroyed. Where does it ever say this? Now for the sake of argument these are called creatures, not summoned. The rules for calling state that a physical corpse would be left behind by called creatures. So I'd assume this isn't the case.

So unless someone actually has proof that this "dissipation" happens, to a called outsider, reasonably one should be able to cat animate dead on them correct?

Or am i missing something?

[VRMH]

1. What are those "physical requirements" supposed to be?
2. Souls are irrelevant for Animate Dead, all you need is an intact, corporeal corpse.
3. Outsiders leave corpses just fine; how else would anyone craft angelskin armour?

Outsiders can be turned into zombies, provided they are dead and left a mostly intact corpse.

Elementals probably don't have bones, and likely simply become their inert element rather than an actual corpse upon death. But most Outsiders are described as having "normal" bodies. Fantastical maybe, but still flesh and bones.

[detu maki]

Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.

Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a physical anatomy.

[detu maki]

And yeah that's pretty much how i felt. But we needed to make sure.

[Howie23]

In the absence of GM fiat, ask him for the reference on "outsiders go poof." If he's stating it as fiat, find another tactic.

In 3e, I heard some reference of a hierarchy of types, in which outsiders could not become undead. I never saw the chart, and am not sure where it is supposed to exist. If able to hunt it down, it may provide a basis for further discussion. It may be a 3.0 concept that didn't carry forward, or it may be from some optional rule source that gM is confusing with the edition or rules sources you are using.

[LazarX]

Howie23 wrote:

In the absence of GM fiat, ask him for the reference on "outsiders go poof." If he's stating it as fiat, find another tactic.

If they're summoned, that's what happens when they die. You've simply banished them from the material plane. So if your campaign is full of summoned outsiders, it may be time to exercise different aspects of necromancy. (it's not just about animating the dead)

[detu maki]

Actually, as I specifically started to avoid that argument, they're all called.

It's kind of a long storyline but yeah