Bastard swords, one handed get 1.5 x Str?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

This is from a discussion we were having over on the the PBP that has interesting implications for Titan Maulers and Bastard Swords...

Quote:

Core Rulebook FAQ wrote:

Power Attack: If I am using a two-handed weapon with one hand (such as a lance while mounted), do still I get the +50% damage for using a two-handed weapon?
Yes.

Then someone pointed out that it is not just limited to power attack if you look at the description of two-handed weapons in the core rulebook

Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.

It's not that WIELDING a weapon in two hands gives you the 1.5 str bonus. Wielding a two-handed WEAPON is what gives you the bonus (and under one-handed weapons it also states that if you wield a one-handed weapon in two hands you get the 1.5 bonus as well).

So bastard swords (and great axes etc) used one handed are at 1.5 x Str? It has some interesting implications for the bastard sword in particular.


No. They're a 1 handed exotic weapon that have a special ability to be wielded in two hands as a martial weapon. They are one handed weapons.

Scarab Sages

Jotungrip:
At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like.

Emphasis mine. It is specifically stated that it is treated as a 1-h weapon. So no 1.5x STR or -1/+3 Power Attack. However, if you are able to bypass it via other builds, like a mounted lancer or a "Thunder sans Fang" build, which does not state the "1-h" treatment, then you can apply the extra damage modifier.


Greetings, fellow traveller.

The lance description in the Equipment section gives specifics for that weapon: you can wield it 1-handed while mounted.
--> Here a specific rule trumps the standard ruling.

For the bastard sword to be able to wield it 1-handed you'd need the Exotic Weapon Prof feat.
--> feat tax.

I'd also put it in a similar line as the questions about inappropriate-sized weapons (RAI at least): a medium PC cannot make good use of a 2-handed weapon while using it 1-handed.

Also, the FAQ doesn't give us any clue what happens to your attack bonus or what size the weapon in question is.

Ruyan.

Grand Lodge

A Bastard Sword is an Exotic One-handed weapon.

It is always an One-handed weapon.

It can be wielded in two hands, and then treated as a Martial weapon when doing so, but remains an One-handed weapon.

Feats, treat it as an Exotic One-handed weapon.

Traits, treat it as an Exotic One-handed weapon.

Class abilities, treat it as an Exotic One-handed weapon.

Spells, treat it as an Exotic One-handed weapon.

Enchantments, can only be placed upon it, if it can be placed on an Exotic One-handed melee weapon.


Helaman wrote:
So bastard swords (and great axes etc) used one handed are at 1.5 x Str?

No.

Your primary hand gives you 1x your STR damage modifier and your off-hand gives you 1/2x your STR modifier. People wielding two weapons who hit with both of them get to apply 1.5x their STR modifier (1x with primary, 1/2x with off-hand). People wielding one weapon with two hands get the same damage modifier, 1.5x.

Perfectly balanced. One of the better mechanics in the game, as far as balance is concerned.

This is not about the size of weapon, this is about using more muscles - specifically, the muscles of two arms rather than only the muscles of one arm.

If it were just the size of the weapon that mattered, then a giant wielding a greatsword with one hand would get 1.5x STR damage modifier, but what would he get if he wielded a huge greatsword with both hands? 2x? And what about a colossal titan wielding a colossal greatsword with two hands? 3x?

No.

As weapons get bigger, they do more dice of damage. Period. In other words, if the weapon I am holding is bigger than the weapon you are holding, mine will do more DICE of damage (or larger dice).

As you wield weapons with more arms, you get more STR damage modifier. Period. In other words, if you and I are holding the same weapons, but I'm using mine with two hands and you are only using one hand, I will get to apply more STR to my damage rolls than you will.

RuyanVe wrote:

For the bastard sword to be able to wield it 1-handed you'd need the Exotic Weapon Prof feat.

--> feat tax.

No, it's not a feat tax. The bastard sword in one hand is more awesome than any other one-handed weapon. You make good use of a feat for this since you really do gain a benefit from the feat. Calling this a feat tax is like calling Improved Initiative a feat tax for people who like being first in combat - if we're going to be that unrestrained then every feat in the game is a feat tax.


Hm. True. The good thing is, I'd have ruled it the same way you guys did.

Ruyan.


DM_Blake wrote:
Helaman wrote:
So bastard swords (and great axes etc) used one handed are at 1.5 x Str?

No.

Your primary hand gives you 1x your STR damage modifier and your off-hand gives you 1/2x your STR modifier. People wielding two weapons who hit with both of them get to apply 1.5x their STR modifier (1x with primary, 1/2x with off-hand). People wielding one weapon with two hands get the same damage modifier, 1.5x.

Perfectly balanced. One of the better mechanics in the game, as far as balance is concerned.

This is not about the size of weapon, this is about using more muscles - specifically, the muscles of two arms rather than only the muscles of one arm.

If it were just the size of the weapon that mattered, then a giant wielding a greatsword with one hand would get 1.5x STR damage modifier, but what would he get if he wielded a huge greatsword with both hands? 2x? And what about a colossal titan wielding a colossal greatsword with two hands? 3x?

No.

As weapons get bigger, they do more dice of damage. Period. In other words, if the weapon I am holding is bigger than the weapon you are holding, mine will do more DICE of damage (or larger dice).

As you wield weapons with more arms, you get more STR damage modifier. Period. In other words, if you and I are holding the same weapons, but I'm using mine with two hands and you are only using one hand, I will get to apply more STR to my damage rolls than you will.

RuyanVe wrote:

For the bastard sword to be able to wield it 1-handed you'd need the Exotic Weapon Prof feat.

--> feat tax.
No, it's not a feat tax. The bastard sword in one hand is more awesome than any other one-handed weapon. You make good use of a feat for this since you really do gain a benefit from the feat. Calling this a feat tax is like calling Improved Initiative a feat tax for people who like being first in combat - if we're going to be that unrestrained then every feat in the game is a feat tax.

I'll be "that guy" and go ahead and say the rules do not support your logic.

And at a glance, it seems like good logic... That is, until you introduce creatures with more than two arms.
A Marilith, for example, cannot pick up a weapon and grasp it with all six of it's hands in order to deal 3.5x Str damage.

It just doesn't work like that.

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