So I don't think I'm the first board denizen to suggest that there might be a lot of synergy between the spellcasting of the Sor, the martial ability of the monk (don't laugh!) and the stat boosts of the Dragon Disciple. But how to make the pieces come together?
Monk: Flurry is out of the question if you want to make use of the natural attacks of the Draconic Sor/DD, so one of the archetypes probably fits better. This character will have a very high str score, so probably Master of Many Styles to synergize Dragon style early. So at least two levels to get maximum benefit, spaced out judiciously.
Sor: We need to reduce the MADness of this character, and the easiest way to do that is the cross-blooded Empyreal (wis for casting, e.t.c.)/Draconic bloodlines. One less spell per level hurts though. The ultimate goal is to be able to cast 8th level spells for the fantastic Greater Form of the Dragon (of course).
DD: How many levels to take here? I'm inclined to cut this PrC at 8th level as there is no need to lose that last caster level.
So as a departure from my regular monk-builds, I am not gearing this guy for massive dice worths of damage. The main kicker will come from the static mods. Str especially with Dragon style and if I can swing tiger style as well, then power attack for no penalty damage.
On the dragon type, probably something that breathes acid, as noxious bite is a good feat to take. More thoughts later.
prototype00
What exactly do you want from the Monk class?
You know, now that you ask that question, I am considering my motivations as well. I suppose it boils down to free feats (improved unarmed strikes and style feats), early access to said feats and the ability to have two styles up at once.
Also toughness is nice/evasion is nice (depending on whether I take the Monk of the sacred mountain archetype or just go MoMS).
What would you recommend BBT?
prototype00
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Well, you could just go Brawler, or Unarmed Fighter, and cut way down on MAD.
Wear an Armored Kilt, or Haramaki, with the Brawling enchantment, and end up doing way more damage than a Monk.
This gives you full BAB, extra feats, proficiencies, and will allow you to utilize things like Gloves of Dueling, and access to feats like Weapon Specialization.
What races/books are available?
Well, you could just go Brawler, or Unarmed Fighter, and cut way down on MAD.
How so? Just focus on Str and Cha, you mean? I know Unarmed fighter gets a style feat for free.
Wear an Armored Kilt, or Haramaki, with the Brawling enchantment, and end up doing way more damage than a Monk.
This gives you full BAB, extra feats, proficiencies, and will allow you to utilize things like Gloves of Dueling, and access to feats like Weapon Specialization.
Really? I'm only taking two levels of this *not sorcerer* class (basically 2 mnk/ftr, 8DD, 10 Sorc), at that kind of investment, I feel the monk gives slightly more bang for buck.
What races/books are available?
All really, this is a build not a character I'm playing.
prototype00
So that I can cast 8th lvl spells and Greater Form of the Dragon, basically.
prototype00
Well, I actually was coming up with a Dragon Disciple myself awhile back, and the answer I came up with was 2 levels into master of many styles monk, 2 levels into Ranger, 1 level into sorcerer, and the rest into Dragon Disciple (at least until level 16...).
Reasoning? Master of many styles can easily gain dragon style and dragon's Ferocity at levels 1 and 2, since monks picking up those feats do not have to have the normal prerequisites.
From there, having the level dip into ranger allowed me to grab some natural claws, and while claws typically do not work with unarmed features, there's a feat for that called Feral Combat Training.
So overall...
Level 1: Dragon Style (monk feat), feat of your choice
Level 2: Dragon Ferocity (monk feat)
Level 3: Intimidating Prowess
Level 4: Aspect of the Beast (natural combat style, grabbing claws)
Level 5: Weapon Focus(Claws)
Level 6: (First level in the Dragon Disciple, nothing spectacular)
Level 7: Bloodline Feat: your choice, Feral Combat Training.
the rest doesn't have as huge a factor, however there are a few things that should be noted about this build.
A. The reason why I did not pick up weapon focus claws at level 1 is because normally one cannot. Many GM's deem that you are not proficient with a particular type of natural weapon unless you have said natural weapon, and you do not have it till level 4 from Aspect of the Beast.
B. Intimidating Prowess may not be the most megestic or magnificent feat, however I feel it adds a lot of flavor to the dragon disciple, let alone is likely the most powerful use of said feat (what other class will often emphasize heavily on strength and charisma?)
C. Why go to such lengths for an emphasis on Claws, when I could easily do something more emphasizing on fists? Dragon Form. It would benefit your natural claws that you could gain from Aspect of the Beast, the claws available with the dragon bloodline power, and the dragon form claws.
It may not be the absolute best idea, but it is another one to maybe take into consideration.
Also, bonus points if you can get a racial trait with a bite attack for an additional attack along with those 2 claws during full-round attacks.
Not hugely, but it was nice for a capstone ability, I thought. Why? Is there a problem with taking too many sorc levels?
prototype00
Well, I actually was coming up with a Dragon Disciple myself awhile back, and the answer I came up with was 2 levels into master of many styles monk, 2 levels into Ranger, 1 level into sorcerer, and the rest into Dragon Disciple (at least until level 16...).
Reasoning? Master of many styles can easily gain dragon style and dragon's Ferocity at levels 1 and 2, since monks picking up those feats do not have to have the normal prerequisites.
From there, having the level dip into ranger allowed me to grab some natural claws, and while claws typically do not work with unarmed features, there's a feat for that called Feral Combat Training.
That's quite a common and effective route (or at least I've seen others do it that way). I rather thought I could have my cake an eat it (unarmed strike/claws from the draconic bloodline/spells at the same time) But yes, feral combat training is fantastic, especially for secondary natural attacks, go from .5str to 1.5str in one go.
I personally (in my attempt-builds) took the style feat and used the bonus feat of the MoMS to get the second/third feat in the chain way before I should be able to.
prototype00
Well, that makes you more caster focused, and really kind of makes the tactics differ.
Less BAB, less feats, and less hit points.
Hit points, I find, are quite made up by the d12 DD Hit Die and the boost to con they get. (Ended up with 300+ HP at 20th level with average rolls as determined by herolab and Greater form of the dragon running)
Bab is an issue, as I only get 3 iterative attacks eventually, but with multiattack and the claw/claw/bite routine (especially if you take feral combat training (claw)) it ends up being like a monk flurry, basically. Final (20th level) to hit for unarmed strike was +36, claws at +35 and bite at +34, which is okay I suppose.
Feats are slightly starved in the beginning but by the end, I'm kind of wondering what to do with them. (I took Snatch for the no-save breath weapons and Expanded Arcana (Greater form of the Dragon)).
I'm not disagreeing with what you said, as you raise good points, but the way DD buffs characters (and choosing buff spells) its manageable, I think.
prototype00
Edit: Perhaps I could put out a 10th level build and then we could dissect that.
Aasimar Dragon Disciple 4 Monk (Master of Many Styles, Monk of the Sacred Mountain) 2 Sorcerer (Crossblooded, Wildblooded) 4
LG Medium Outsider (native)
Init +1; Senses Perception +20
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Defense
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AC 25, touch 16, flat-footed 24 (+4 armor, +1 Dex, +5 natural, +2 deflection)
hp 76 (4d12+2d8+4d6+20)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +16; +2 vs. death, +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5, dragon resistances
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Bite (Magic Claws & Bite) +18 (1d6+11/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Magic Claws & Bite) +18 x2 (1d6+11/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +20/+15 (1d6+29/x2)/(1d6+24/x2)
Special Attacks breath weapon (1/day) (dc 19), dragon bite, magic claws & bite (8 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Age Resistance, Lesser (1/day)
Sorcerer (Crossblooded, Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 9):
3 (5/day) Heroism
2 (7/day) Mirror Image, Alter Self
1 (8/day) Protection from Evil, Shield, Mage Armor, Burning Hands (DC 16), True Strike
0 (at will) Spark (DC 15), Read Magic, Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation (DC 15), Breeze
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Statistics
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Str 30, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 20, Cha 10
Base Atk +6; CMB +18; CMD 34 (36 vs. Bull Rush, 36 vs. Overrun, 36 vs. Trip)
Feats Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Dragon Ferocity +5, 1d4+10 rds, Dragon Style, Eschew Materials, Improved Unarmed Strike, Multiattack, Power Attack -2/+4, Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 20), Tiger Pounce, Tiger Style, Toughness +10
Traits Magical Knack (Sorcerer [Crossblooded, Wildblooded]), Quain Martial Artist
Skills Acrobatics +16, Appraise +2, Bluff +2, Climb +12, Diplomacy +2, Disguise +2, Escape Artist +3, Fly +8, Heal +9, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Linguistics +3, Perception +20, Ride +3, Sense Motive +7, Stealth +3, Survival +7, Swim +12
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic
SQ ac bonus +5, fuse style (2 styles), immortal spark, mutated bloodlines (draconic [gold dragon [fire]], empyreal), stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike (1d6)
Other Gear Amulet of mighty fists +2, Belt of giant strength +4, Cloak of resistance +2, Headband of inspired wisdom +4, Ring of protection +2, 2000 GP
Just a comment, but you may not want to discount flurry. You can take a feat to flurry with natural weapons, and monastic legacy plus a monk robe will let you have full unarmed damage, which will get seriously size adjusted with form of the dragon.
True enough, but the number of monk levels I currently have planned (as said) is probably not enough to warrant going into flurry, I think. (Or have I missed something?)
On the other hand I am seriously considering a shocking grasp based build (with wayang spellhunter and magical lineage) for that extra oomph in my unarmed combat. (Thoughts to come)
prototype00
Was considering a spell storing AoMF for use with an intensified shocking grasp, but sorcerers cast metamagic spells as full round actions, so I wouldn't be able to put it in storage, is that not correct?
Is there a feat out there that reduces the time it takes a sorcerer to cast a metamagic spell?
prototype00
Was considering a spell storing AoMF for use with an intensified shocking grasp, but sorcerers cast metamagic spells as full round actions, so I wouldn't be able to put it in storage, is that not correct?
Is there a feat out there that reduces the time it takes a sorcerer to cast a metamagic spell?
prototype00
Spontaneous MetafocusWas considering a spell storing AoMF for use with an intensified shocking grasp, but sorcerers cast metamagic spells as full round actions, so I wouldn't be able to put it in storage, is that not correct?
Is there a feat out there that reduces the time it takes a sorcerer to cast a metamagic spell?
prototype00
Excellent! Thanks for the heads up.
prototype00