Alright, so I have this friend that is telling me he thinks that if his sorcerer took a level in wizard that he could cast any spell from the spellbook as a sorcerer would because, the spells from the spellbook are part of his spells known.
Could I get some solid rulings for why this wouldn't work? Or if it would work and why?
To me it feels like he's trying to power game, but he says that's what he planned for his character all along. I feel like this is wrong, but can't find solid proof what would happen if one took a level of wizard and the rest in sorcerer.
"Yea, theres nothing saying you cant be a lvl 1 wizard, with lvl 9 spells in your spellbook, you just cant cast them.. so with what im already seeing, a sorc/wiz should be able to learn all the spells, and be cast them all
He wouldnt be able to take advantage of the wizard's daily amount of spells without preparing said spells, and being able to cast them as a wizard, but theres nothing saying they would be able to spontaneously cast from their sorc's levels"
To help show what he is saying, this is a quote from him. Is he right?
The spell abilities for both classes function separately. He can use his sorcerer spells known only to cast sorcerer spells, and he can use his wizard spellbook only to prepare wizard spells.
He can't prepare his sorcerer spells known as wizard spells, and he can't select spells from his wizard spellbook to cast with his sorcerer spell slots.
That is not allowed. Even though they both cast arcane spells each class tracks its spell separately and uses its own mechanics.
If he wants to be a sorcerer/wizard and not lose too many levels there is a 3.5 prestige class he might like if you allow him to use it, but he still won't be able to do what he is proposing.
PS:If your friend could do what he was proposing that 3.5 PrC would not even exist.
edit:The PrC is the Ultimate Magus.
That's what I thought, but he's claiming that it doesn't say as much in the rules. Is there a ruling somewhere that anyone knows of that I can show him?
Look up ANY spellcaster stat block Paizo has ever published. NONE of them cross spells in the way your friend describes (except mystic theurge).
Speaking of mystic theurge, if your friend was right (he isn't) then the prestige class' abilities would be uselessly redundant.
That's what I thought, but he's claiming that it doesn't say as much in the rules. Is there a ruling somewhere that anyone knows of that I can show him?
The wizard says he has to study his spellbook.
The sorcerer gets to just cast what he knows. We can agree on this.
Now your friend is arguing that the sorcerer has access to the wizard's spells, and that the sorcerer rules would trump the wizard rules if this were the case.
Where is his proof?
Why could you not argue that the sorcerer is now limited to spells he has time to study for?<----The rules don't work like this either. My point is that he only gets what the rules give him, and there is no rule giving one class access to spell another class learned via that class even if they share the same spell list.
A wizard does not know his spells.
I disagree with you on this point. The spells in a wizard's spellbook ARE his known spells. The rules specifically state this in several areas.
They totally differ from the known spells of a sorcerer, however (and of any other spellcasting class for that matter).
RD is correct. While they are both "known spells" the mechanics are not the same. The sorcerer cast his spells on instinct, and the wizard has to study his spellbook before he can cast the spell from his spellbook.
That is another reason they are tracked separately. The sorcerer can not instinctly cast the spells from the spellbook because he does not know them in the same way he knows his sorcerer spells.
Oh I agree with everyone, it's just I know he'll dispute it till it drops. I'm fairly certain the DM will swat him down on this and if he doesn't, then perhaps my wizard should start multi-classing as a sorcerer in the DMs twisted world.
If he brings it up again, I will most likely use wraithstrikes post about how a wizard and a sorcerer know their spells. He'll most likely continue to dispute it as he can be stubborn, but in the end it isn't for me to turn him down, but just tell him I think he's wrong.
Thanks everyone.
Oh I agree with everyone, it's just I know he'll dispute it till it drops. I'm fairly certain the DM will swat him down on this and if he doesn't, then perhaps my wizard should start multi-classing as a sorcerer in the DMs twisted world.
If he brings it up again, I will most likely use wraithstrikes post about how a wizard and a sorcerer know their spells. He'll most likely continue to dispute it as he can be stubborn, but in the end it isn't for me to turn him down, but just tell him I think he's wrong.
Thanks everyone.
Well with players like that saying "no" is all that can be done. :)
Besides the spellbook/known spells thing, it doesn't matter if the wizard spells are spells known.
You can have two spontaneous arcane casting classes (sorc and bard) but they don't get to share each other's spells known.
With wizard/sorceror, it is just doubly impossible to do that.
Even Mystic Theurge doesn't do that AFAIK, it just allows sharing spell slots.
If your friend 'was planning all along' for this to work out like this, when NOBODY ELSE PLAYS THAT WAY, maybe he's just an idiot.