|
7 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
|
"Divine Anger (Ex): At 6th level, you gain the ability to rage like a barbarian. Your effective barbarian level for this ability is your inquisitor level – 3. If you have levels in barbarian, these levels stack when determining the effect of your rage. You do not gain any rage powers from this granted power, though if you have rage powers from another class, you may use them with these rages. You can rage a number of rounds per day equal to your Wisdom bonus, plus 1 round for every inquisitor level above 4th."
So after reading into this and alot of other peoples opinions on how this works I have noticed something no one seems to be taking into account.
If you read divine anger word for word it specifically states "you gain the ability to rage like a barbarian"
Now with this statement it is not saying you gain the rage class ability specifically, but that you can rage as a barbarian of your lvl -3. So what I draw from this is that when you rage you do so as a barbarian would of 3 levels lower. That means the you do gain all of the abilitys associated with raging such as improved rage or timeless rage.
If it says you rage, you get rage. Not any other class features. Not that I've actually heard of your examples in this system.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
The improved rage and timeless rage abilities are Barbarian class features that alter Rage.
You do not gain these class features.
Just for my curiosity, where are they found? I don't find them on a quick search?
They're on the standard barbarian progression, just like Rage Powers - check the table here for "Greater Rage" at level 11 and "Tireless Rage" at level 17.
Weirdo wrote: They're on the standard barbarian progression, just like Rage Powers - check the table here for "Greater Rage" at level 11 and "Tireless Rage" at level 17. I saw those. What was mentioned upthread was improved rage and timeless rage. Maybe just typos.
See thats how every response has ended up but you failed to see the point I am trying to make. It states "You gain the ability to rage like a barbarian. Your effective barbarian level for this ability is your inquisitor level -3. If you have levels in barbarian, these levels stack when determining the effect of your rage."
So again.
1. You do not gain the rage class feature Divine Anger acts as a rage used by a barbarian at 3 levels lower.
2. It would not state your effective barbarian level for determining the effects of your rage unless your rage improved as your level did.
3. If it were just that you gained the rage class features then there would be no reason to add on the clause of "you do not gain any rage powers from this granted power"
Stating that "its a class feature" is the same as saying a paladin would not get more then a 1d6 on channel energy since it uses the same terminology as above " A paladin uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy."
"You do not gain any rage powers from this granted power,"
If no one else gets you point wolfen, I get it. Either the phrase that you point out was an extra bit of verbage that has no meaning whatsoever or that phrase means exactly what you said it means.
This is an issue that has been around since Divine Anger was introduced and it has never been answered. I think it should be. Until then, you are going to be up the the whim of the particular GM that you are playing with.
I tend to side with you because I don't like to make the assumption that Paizo just adds language that has not meaning.
With that said, there are times when they answer FAQ and they specifically say the equivalent of "yes we put that wording there but ignore it."
I have clicked on your question to make it a FAQ. I actually would love to see a answer to the question one way or the other. This one is truly an ambiguous ability.
By the way, Wolfen, the reason why a say it is ambiguous is because the language could mean that when you rage, if you have a rage power, that rage power behaves like a barbarian your level - 3.
I wasn't under the impression you could get more than rage at level -3 and qualify for feats with rage as a pre req.
That's almost like implying a paladin should be treated in all ways as a cleric of 3 levels lower because he casts divine spells at Ecl-3.
I guess I've been operating under the impression that Greater Rage or Tireless Rage are separate from Rage.
However, "your effective Barbarian level is Class - 3" is actually a pretty easy to explain.
For instance, if I have Barbarian 2 / Inquisitor 7, I can then use the "Extra Rage Power" feat to select a rage power that has a pre-req of Barbarian level 6. While Divine anger does not grant you rage powers, Barbarian 2 does.
I clicked the FAQ because I honestly don't know if Greater or Tireless Rage is supposed to be part of Divine Anger, and for the sake of my build I would like to know.
|
1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
|
Since it says your rounds of rage are determined by inquisor level-4 + wis modifier, which would be the only other thing a barbarian's rage is normally dependent on besides obtain Greatedr Rage and Tireless Rage it wouldn't make sense if you didn't gain those abilities as well at the appropriate level.
Besides, without the rage powers the morale bonus to strength is con isn't so overwhelmingly great. Rage powers are really what make rage awesome.
Daenar wrote: That's almost like implying a paladin should be treated in all ways as a cleric of 3 levels lower because he casts divine spells at Ecl-3. Exactly, or that anyone with eldritch heritage gets other sorcerer goodies at -2.
Ximen Bao wrote: Daenar wrote: That's almost like implying a paladin should be treated in all ways as a cleric of 3 levels lower because he casts divine spells at Ecl-3. Exactly, or that anyone with eldritch heritage gets other sorcerer goodies at -2. Really, it is not the same as either one of your examples. The examples that you have pointed to are clear on their face. This one is not. While you may be correct about how paizo will rule, you are not correct in saying that this is as clear as the other examples.
Quote: Divine Anger (Ex): At 6th level, you gain the ability to rage like a barbarian. Your effective barbarian level for this ability is your inquisitor level – 3. If you have levels in barbarian, these levels stack when determining the effect of your rage. You do not gain any rage powers from this granted power, though if you have rage powers from another class, you may use them with these rages. You can rage a number of rounds per day equal to your Wisdom bonus, plus 1 round for every inquisitor level above 4th. First, it does not say that you gain the "barbarian rage ability." It says that you rage like a barbarian. Two very different things potentially. If it said the first, your argument would be much stronger. Since it says the second, it can be interpreted to include the rage ability, greater rage, tireless rage, mighty rage. After all, none of them are called out specifically. So why single out one and disregard the others.
Second, as many have pointed out, the second sentence which gives an effective level further confuses the issue. The only things, with regards to raging like a barbarian, that are affected by level are the rounds of rage and the bonuses/penalties you get while raging. The amount of rage rounds is already covered by divine rage. So effective level seems to be referring to the bonuses/penalties (greater rage, mighty rage, tireless rage).
Again, maybe we are all wrong for reading it that way, but it is worth being cleared up with a FAQ.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
