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Despite the fun title, my actual point for discussion is how traps seem to increasingly become irrelevant, or alternately intrinsically terrifying as the party levels up.
A party without a rogue is going to be suffering attacks from these malaicious contraptions semi-regularly as they go up in levels, but for a party with a rogue, even the cited high level traps in the DMG become tremendously irrelevant by virtue of the trapfinding ability.
Lets take the cone of cold trap CR 11, standard. It has a DC 30 detection and a DC 30 Disable.
Now lets imagine a rogue, approximately 11th level, with perception and disable device and full ranks in each a 16 dexterity and a positive wisdom score modifier of say...12 (I assume no one will find this unreasonable). Meaning essentially a +17 on base detection. Now again, lets assume our rogue friend opted to take the relevant skill focus on perception as well, so thats an additional +6 (since he has more then 10 ranks), meaning essentially he has a +23 on base detection, making detection of a CR equivalent trap almost a given. Assuming he has the typical masterwork thieves tools as well, he has a better then 50% chance of disarming the thing.
Now lets move up to CR 15. The Rogue is 15th level, and his opponent this time is the Crushing Stone trap. He's now carting along with 15 ranks in perception and disble device, both with a +7 from trapfinding for a base bonus of +22 even before any wisdom or dexterity adjustments. This is also assuming, the very unlikely prospect that he doesn't have some additional magical gear that pumps his wisdom or dexterity even further. So lets assume the stat range from his 11th level incarnation so he has a +29 to perception and a +25 to disable device. The CR 15 trap we're presented with is..detected on a 30 and disarmed on a 20. The equivalent CR trap is more or less automatically detected and disabled, and again, this is assuming a very unwise rogue, and one who isn't wearing gear expected of a 15th level PC (Such as gloves of dexterity or perception boosters).
The CR 20 variants top out at 34 for detection and disarmament, meaning our 15th level rogue can take care of what would technically be an 'overwhelming encoutner,' solo, while the rest of the party drinks mai-tais behind him, or whatever it is adventurers do while the rogue works. The 11th level variant would definately be challenged by a 34/34, but probably could handle the crushing stone trap above without much trouble with it either, but if he botched the entire party would probably cease to exist.
Now, without a detective type rogue, the party would probably be severely messed up by these (I mean a meteor swarm trap, sweet heavens!), but in general it seems to me from a DM perspective that the traps represent irrelevant encounters and free xp to the party when the rogue's doing his job and terrifyingly arbitrary methods of causing damage if the party lacks an expert on these things.
By .cr 20 you should have more things going on to raise dcs to make the challenge appropriate and keep the rest of the party busy! Use distractions.
I see the problem, and agree with most of your math. The one point I disagree on is that the traps are truly a threat.
Meteor Swarm Trap is CR 19, for example, will deal up to 26d6 to someone caught in all four blast areas and struck by the touch attack. That's 91 damage, reflex save DC 23 for half. That's not going to kill anyone in a high level party.
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Lowball example:
16th level wizard, making the trap CR+3.
Average hit points +2 per level from CON etc. would be 96. So even with a successful touch attack and all four saving throws failed, the most vulnerable party member is still alive.
Reflex save bonus from class +5, from DEX +2, from Cloak of Resistance +5, for a total bonus of +12. That's a 50% chance to make each save. Again a low estimate, and the most vulnerable party member.
Summary: not much of a threat.
I see the problem, and agree with most of your math. The one point I disagree on is that the traps are truly a threat.
Meteor Swarm Trap is CR 19, for example, will deal up to 26d6 to someone caught in all four blast areas and struck by the touch attack. That's 91 damage, reflex save DC 23 for half. That's not going to kill anyone in a high level party.
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Lowball example:
16th level wizard, making the trap CR+3.Average hit points +2 per level from CON etc. would be 96. So even with a successful touch attack and all four saving throws failed, the most vulnerable party member is still alive.
Reflex save bonus from class +5, from DEX +2, from Cloak of Resistance +5, for a total bonus of +12. That's a 50% chance to make each save. Again a low estimate, and the most vulnerable party member.
Summary: not much of a threat.
To be fair, that wizard could die from the trap as well, and it is not a sure thing that he will live through it.
Edit: He has a 30.36% chance to be dropped to 0hp or lower.
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Also keep in mind, failing to detect the trap means well, you don't detect it. Meaning in the case of the falling rock and meteor swarm you're more likely to get multiple people plastered by the effects. And this isn't even counting for the 'gas room' traps that are also available past a certain CR point.
Its punishingly easy for a trap to absolutely ruin a party's day if they don't detect it (ability damage, outright damage, positioning), while also being nigh impossible to /not/ be detected if a rogue is in the party (rendering it basically irrelevant as people can MacGuyver up solutions even if the disable is too high. Unless the disable device fails by a fair margin, the rogue can just try again after all.).
Alternatively, it can act as a force multiplier for a bad guy, but given when init is rolled players tend to turn off their 'trap detection mode' mindset, it puts it back into the 'without a rogue' area.
Also note that the "panel" to disable the trap could easily be far behind the trigger zone. The cold projector could be 60 feet from the edge of where the cone will reach. (The rogue, or anyone else for that matter, pretty much has to risk triggering the trap before they can even disarm it.) Although of course some DMs won't like this idea.
This is a little rediculous. The trigger is the point you are disarming. How could you possibly have to go "over there" to disarm the trigger which is here?
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Also note that the "panel" to disable the trap could easily be far behind the trigger zone. The cold projector could be 60 feet from the edge of where the cone will reach. (The rogue, or anyone else for that matter, pretty much has to risk triggering the trap before they can even disarm it.) Although of course some DMs won't like this idea.This is a little rediculous. The trigger is the point you are disarming. How could you possibly have to go "over there" to disarm the trigger which is here?
This
A trap can be disabled at the trigger point.
Example: a crossbow with a tripwire. I don't need to reach the crossbow to cut the tripwire.
Yeah.. but what about a magical trigger instead of a mechanical one? Can't the trap "see" you from 60ft away and still trigger?
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Proximity: This trigger activates the trap when a creature approaches within a certain distance of it. A proximity trigger differs from a location trigger in that the creature need not be standing in a particular square. Creatures that are flying can spring a trap with a proximity trigger but not one with a location trigger. Mechanical proximity triggers are extremely sensitive to the slightest change in the air. This makes them useful only in places such as crypts, where the air is unusually still.
The proximity trigger used most often for magic device traps is the alarm spell. Unlike when the spell is cast, an alarm spell used as a trigger can have an area that's no larger than the area the trap is meant to protect.
Some magic device traps have special proximity triggers that activate only when certain kinds of creatures approach. For example, a detect good spell can serve as a proximity trigger on an evil altar, springing the attached trap only when someone of good alignment gets close enough to it.
There is two ways to look at it. Either you disarm the alarm spell providing the trigger at a square adjacent to where it can detect, or you can never disable one, because you would always make it trigger on squares blocking the path to the disarm point.
Since it says you can use disarm device to disable a magic trap, it implies you are able to do so without setting the trap off, and therefore, you must be able to disarm the proximity area of the trap, and not actually have to get to the point in space the trap itself is located.
Think of it like a magical tripwire you are cutting. With disable device. Magically
As for visual traps, depending on the spell used for the trigger, they have different bonuses to perception. For those, you have to stealth up to the trap, without being seen, then you can disable it.
I see the problem, and agree with most of your math. The one point I disagree on is that the traps are truly a threat.
Meteor Swarm Trap is CR 19, for example, will deal up to 26d6 to someone caught in all four blast areas and struck by the touch attack. That's 91 damage, reflex save DC 23 for half. That's not going to kill anyone in a high level party.
.
Lowball example:
16th level wizard, making the trap CR+3.Average hit points +2 per level from CON etc. would be 96. So even with a successful touch attack and all four saving throws failed, the most vulnerable party member is still alive.
Reflex save bonus from class +5, from DEX +2, from Cloak of Resistance +5, for a total bonus of +12. That's a 50% chance to make each save. Again a low estimate, and the most vulnerable party member.
Summary: not much of a threat.
To be fair, that wizard could die from the trap as well, and it is not a sure thing that he will live through it.
Edit: He has a 30.36% chance to be dropped to 0hp or lower.
If he gets hit by the attack (85%), and he fails all four reflex saves (6.25%), then he has a 30.36% chance of still only being at 0 HP. To actually kill him, we're looking at around a 0.2% chance.
A 16th level wizard, with only a 14 DEX and 14 CON (very low for 16th level), no special defenses or rerolls, against a CR 19 trap, in the area of all four meteors, targeted by one of them (you can't be targeted by more than one), has less than a 1 in 500 chance of death. Choose any other character in the party or make the wizard 17th level or give him a decent DEX or give him a decent CON or give him any applicable defense, and there's zero chance of a kill.
[A trap] can act as a force multiplier for a bad guy. . .
This is really the best use of traps in Pathfinder. It takes a little planning, but it's both fun and effective.
Traps as written in core 3E and in Pf are pretty awful and you basically explained why in the OP. They *have* to be obscenely dangerous for their listed CR since the party can heal up after it anyway, combined with the fact that often it's only one poor sap or two actually getting near the damn thing. And yeah, the DCs have always been grossly inflated, especially at lower levels. Just plain awful design.
3E's Dungeonscape had some decent rules and suggestions for implementing traps intended to be used during encounters that had much less effect but also were more interesting and could be used alternatively as force multipliers for the defenders or as a chance for the trapfinder to feel more important in combat (so long as he's able to find, move up to, and disarm the trap in a single round, otherwise the action economy makes it a waste to do so).
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Traps as written in core 3E and in Pf are pretty awful and you basically explained why in the OP. They *have* to be obscenely dangerous for their listed CR since the party can heal up after it anyway, combined with the fact that often it's only one poor sap or two actually getting near the damn thing. And yeah, the DCs have always been grossly inflated, especially at lower levels. Just plain awful design.
3E's Dungeonscape had some decent rules and suggestions for implementing traps intended to be used during encounters that had much less effect but also were more interesting and could be used alternatively as force multipliers for the defenders or as a chance for the trapfinder to feel more important in combat (so long as he's able to find, move up to, and disarm the trap in a single round, otherwise the action economy makes it a waste to do so).
The annoying issue about using traps as they currently are in an encounter is that then the rogue feels as if he's been slighted by not having the opportunity to really detect it.
Its his 'hat' so to speak, so our friendly trapmonkeys tend to look on it as their demense. Although fortunately they no longer get solo xp for it.
And the trap might have only a 30% chance of defeating a /fully healed/ wizard. As stated, traps do belong to the attrition methods of old DnD, but they can also catch people unaware. The guys who believe 'they can go a while' without healing, tend to be the ones who get whalloped the most.