First-please do not devolve into cyclical arguments (especially about Vital Strike and Channel Smite). Present advice/arguments, then leave it for me to mull over.
Second-I have a lot of 3.x/Pathfinder experience as DM & player, I am just short on time and usually stay away from playing paladin-types. I'll be playing in an all-evil short campaign (maybe 5-10 sessions), and we *might* level up once or twice.
Third- Campaign considerations: 9th level, 25 point buy, 60,000 gp starting wralth (no more than half wealth on 1 item (no exceptions), no pregame crafting, combat-heavy mostly against angels/archons and their ilk. Advanced Race Guide races (no custom races) & Expanded Psionics races only.
Fourth-Build considerations- I want to single class antipaladin (ranger 1/hateful rager 2/antipaladin 6 was my first scrapped idea). I will either play a demon-spawned tiefling with the Oversized Limbs alternate racial trait from Bastards of Erebus, or maybe a half-giant with a permanent enlarge person spell. I will be primarily melee. I am thinking large (or huge) greatsword as my weapon (+1 good outsider bane conductive, using fiendish boon to grant unholy and something else).
1. I need a cheap and reliable way to fly.
2. I need feedback on goid potions/wands/scrolls for quick buffs.
3. Feat advice is welcomed- I am thinking Power Attack, Extra Lay on Hands(Touch of Corruption)-possibly multiple times due to conductive weapon, Weapon Focus (greatsword), and whatever else. I had considered Vital Strike, but am on the fence.
4. Can an antipaladin take Oath of Vengeance?
5. Magic item advice. I want to boost Cha & Str, have a competitive AC, & be able to fly as needed. I am pretty dead set on my +1 conductive good outsider bane greatsword (large or huge).
6. Is there a trait that grants UMD as a class skill? Is it a worthwhile investment at 9th level?
Thanks for any feedback, everyone!
And forgive typos, I'm using my cell to post and the screen sensors are a bit off. Editing is nightmarish.
Dotting, I will repost here on my lunch.
In terms of flight, well I guess that would depend on what you consider cheap.
Winged boots or a broom of flying are your best bets item wise, but they clock in at over 15k gold.
Another option is to take the leadership feat and see if you can get a wizard/sorcerer cohort. They could cast fly on you, along with a host of other things. The downside to leadership is that it is a feat that a GM is likely to deny.
Conductive weapon is a good choice. I don't think that extra lay on hands are all that needed.
Anti-paladins don't have any archetypes so no Oath of Vengence Antipaladin (at least no archetypes are in the PRD) but you could always ask your GM.
Dangerously Curious is a trait that makes UMD +1 and a class skill. It's definately worth it if you plan on using UMD as a skill.
In terms of flight, well I guess that would depend on what you consider cheap.
Winged boots or a broom of flying are your best bets item wise, but they clock in at over 15k gold.
Another option is to take the leadership feat and see if you can get a wizard/sorcerer cohort. They could cast fly on you, along with a host of other things. The downside to leadership is that it is a feat that a GM is likely to deny.
Conductive weapon is a good choice. I don't think that extra lay on hands are all that needed.
Anti-paladins don't have any archetypes so no Oath of Vengence Antipaladin (at least no archetypes are in the PRD) but you could always ask your GM.
Dangerously Curious is a trait that makes UMD +1 and a class skill. It's definately worth it if you plan on using UMD as a skill.
Knight of the Sepulcher says sup.
If you want to go with big race, then I highly recommend it for the healing factor, otherwise I say go Dhampir also for the healing factor. Touch of corruption is an amazing ability, especially at level 9, you want to prioritize CHA, and take Word of Healing (Harming) as it allows you to deliver your Cruelty as a ranged attack. You need the Sickened, Staggered, and Nauseated Cruelties, since Nauseated basically means you can get 3 free turns of combat on someone since all they can do is take a move action. You can ask about Ability Focus to raise its DC.Since you can't prepare it yet, scrolls or wands of Greater Invisibility will work wonders for you, better than Displacement, and they are considered flat footed.
As for flight, since you are only 9th you can't even cheese your way into having it on your spell list, top of my head the only way to get it and not burn your feats is an Aasimar who gives up his SLA.
Thanks all for the prompt feedback.
A few things- Leadership is not allowed. After purchasing my sword I'll have about 41k left over to spend. I am uncomfortable spending all my wealth on wands/scrolls. Is Skill Focus (umd) worth it?
How does the aasimar fly? Source? (cannot find it in ARG) Scion of Humanity trait + permanent enlarge person could work...
Where is Word of Healing?
Also, aside from loot stripped from fallen foes and battlefields, no loot will be given out, no gp, no shopping. Hence my need to optimize equipment.
Aasimars can gain the ability to fly through feats, but not until level 10 (effectively level 11 since that's when you'd get a feat to spend).
Source: Blood of Angels.
I do not own Blood of Angels. Is the relevant text open game content?
Are you saying I can trade the aasimar's spell-like ability for flight? I am not wasting feats to fly. Potions or scrolls are cheaper.
I do not own Blood of Angels. Is the relevant text open game content?
Are you saying I can trade the aasimar's spell-like ability for flight? I am not wasting feats to fly. Potions or scrolls are cheaper.
Yes and yes.
Only with the most lienient of GMs. I think what he is talking about is the d100 roll from the table.
Do NOT count on that.
It's not even that good, you have average maneuverability and it becomes poor if you wear armor, and it basically forces you to max your Fly skill, which is bad because you are already lacking in skills as is. Flight access should come from your wizard buddy, whom you torture.
I am not sure how much I'll be able to rely on party buffing. We have 3 other players. One is a human alchemist, the other two undecided but likely one dedicated caster.
A friend at work recommended cheesing it and playing a merfolk that flies via wand. I cannot get the starting large weapon that way so I am skeptical.
I'll need to get a copy of Blood of Angels to look over then. A fallen angel inspired character could be fun.
I am not sure how much I'll be able to rely on party buffing. We have 3 other players. One is a human alchemist, the other two undecided but likely one dedicated caster.
A friend at work recommended cheesing it and playing a merfolk that flies via wand. I cannot get the starting large weapon that way so I am skeptical.
I'll need to get a copy of Blood of Angels to look over then. A fallen angel inspired character could be fun.
If I were to recommend races, I would say go with the Svetocher Dhampir.
Brought forth by the haughty and brutal moroi, svetochers are renowned and feared for their silver tongues and deadly strength.
Ancestry Moroi
Ability Modifiers: +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Con
Alternate Skill Modifiers: Diplomacy, Knowledge (nobility)
Alternate Spell-Like Ability: Svetochers gain obscuring mist as a spell-like ability.
Alternate Weakness: Svetochers take a -1 penalty on saves against effects that deal positive energy damage.
Dhampirs who can trace their heritage to moroi are known as svetochers, and they inherit much of the unnatural charm and beauty exhibited by their vampiric forebears. Svetochers tend to have an easier time than other dhampirs when associating with mortals, though they must be careful That their relatively wanton social interactions do not breed jealousy, resentment, or disdain. They are more often hunted out of covetousness or spite than outright prejudice, so they typically develop social skills that allow them to soothe wounds caused by accidental slights or careless acts.
Since their undead progenitors often deal with royalty, svetochers have a fair chance of being born into nobility. Though some aristocrats are content to raise their moroi-born children in the shadowy corners of high society, less scrupulous nobles have few qualms about leaving their disgraceful offspring on the doorsteps of unfortunate commoners. Moroi rarely care for their half-breed progeny any more than the nobles forced to bear them, but those who do feel a sense of possession over misbegotten children might seek them out in the village they were abandoned in.
Diplomacy is a good skill, you already said you like UMD, and that natural bump to STR is favorable to DEX for a martial heavy build. The neg to CON stinks, but you will be able to heal yourself with touch of corruption.
There are like, at least half a dozen really good and effective ways to play a dhampir antipaladin, if you stick with the Core one (from ARG) I would say play a Dayborn and focus on a DEX build, using an Agile Weapon, sword and board since you can't get 1.5 modifer to damage anyway for a two handed weapon, and max out stealth. For a STR build, stick with the svetocher.
If you aren't going Dhampir (and shame on you) then play a Knight of the Sepulcher. They get light fortification for free at that level, and can heal themselves with their Touches.
TBH, if flight is that important to you, try a different class. The magus gets it by 7th level on their class list.
The only other really okay option for cheap flight would be to completely cheese the DM and say that your background includes you once being an Wyrm Oath paladin who would have had access to Fly, and thus even though you cannot prepare it, would be able to use wands of it with no roll needed. Probably won't work tho, but you can try it.
Is this a point buy? Do you have stats?
Read above posts for point buy and build considerations.
I refuse to give up Fiendish Boon, as it increases my damage by absurd amounts (unholy + viscious = +4d6 extra damage and a mere 1d6 to myself). So no knight of the sepulcher.
I am considering a scythe instead of a greatsword (Fiendish Boon can make it keen), as I am not losing much damage for the potential higher crit. Large scuthe is2d6, large greatsword is 3d6.
I want to fly to avoid needing ranged combat. I often play archers and casters, so I want to get up close with this guy. Even a wand or a bunch of potions will work fine.
I am pretty set on tiefling, but am seriously considering aasimar or half-giant.
Tiefling grants oversized weapons in place of (sp), and with righteous might my attacks are Huge.
Half-giant grants powerful build and allows a permanent enlarge person (Huge attacks), and if size bonuses from righteous might stack, my attacks will be Gargantuan.
Aasimar seems to grant me a fly speed in place of my (sp), and the Scion of Humanity alt. trait allows me to have a permanent enlarge person, granting Large attacks (Huge if it stacks with righteous might).
Nevermind, size bonuses do not stack. Oversight. :p still, damage is nice.
What is this need for an oversized weapon? I have a Dhampir who uses a scythe, I have yet to crit with it. When I do my boon I usually end up going with vicious since it is more useful to me 100% of my hits rather than 10% as with keen. My DM also lets me use the swift action self touch that paladins get, so the damage is mitigated, unless I get double critted in the same round, I pretty much don't die.
How do you intend on getting Righteous Might? And how would you not be able to get Fly if you can get that?
This desire for oversized damage is really munchkinny (HA! linguistic irony), but if you really really want it, an Impact Weapon can do the job. Impacting a nodachi yields the best damage dice in 2d8, and has the 18-20 crit range. An Impacted greatsword has slightly higher averages, but lower DPR due to the crit range.
But dedicating so much of your character to that, you are better off being a barbarian or fighter.
The antipaladin is a much more intelligent class, you do damage and tank sure, but you can do so much more, and can be much more devastating than guys with just higher numbers like giant fighters. You are not a BDF, you are a charismatic, cheeky bastard who sneaks his way into killing everyone.
Also I fixed your flight problem. Here you go, make sure before you buy it you cast Undetectable Alignment and roll dat bluff which you will have maxed out and convince that cleric of travel domainny goodness that you are totally on his side, then kill him!! Because f*ck it who cares? Also takes care of that armor slot and about half your WBL, but I got it covered is the point.
If you are not giving up fiendish boon, then go with a Dhampir, you will thank me, as being able to heal yourself is super duper deal breaking, more important than flying or damage by a lot.
BUILD TIME!!!!
(Your Antipaladin Svetocher's Name goes here)
Antipaladin 9
CE medium humanoid [dhampir]
Init +6; Senses Darkvision 60ft; Low-Light Vision 60ft; Perception +12
Aura evil (9th); cowardice (10 ft.); despair (10ft.)
----------
DEFENSE
----------
AC 24 (30), touch 12 (18), flat-footed 22 (28), (10 +12 armor +2 DEX +6 Deflection[smiting])
HP 10 + 8d10 + 9 CON
Fort +13, Ref +11, Will +11 (-1 to effects that deal positive energy damage)
Immune: energy drain, disease
Weakness Negative Energy Affinity
----------
OFFENSE
----------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 Conductive Bane Greatsword +14/+9 (2d6+6)
Special Attacks channel negative energy (DC 20, 5d6); smite good 3/day; touch of corruption 12/day +13 melee touch (4d6 plus Cruelty DC 22)
Cruelties
- *Sickened
*Staggered
*Nauseated
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th, concentration +15)
At will—detect good
3/day—Obscurring Mist
Antipaladin Spells Prepared (CL 6th, concentration +12)
2nd- Bull's Strength; Invisibility (2)
1st- Bane; Inflict Light Wounds(2); Murderous Command
----------
STATISTICS
----------
STR 18, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 9, CHA 22
Base Atk +9; CMB +13; CMD 25
Feats Power Attack (1); Greater Mercy/Cruelty (3); Extra Touch of Corruption (5); Furious Focus (7); Ability Focus: Cruelty (9)
Traits Extremely Fashionable; Conspiracy Hunter
Skills Bluff +19; Diplomacy +13; Disguise +10; Intimidate +11; Knowledge(Religion) +5; Perception +12; Sense Motive +3; Spellcraft +5; Stealth +11
Languages Common, Abyssal
SQ Plague Bringer, Manipulative, Fiendish Boon
Gear +3 greatsword; Celestial Plate Armor; +4 headband of Alluring Charisma; 1000 gp minus random adventuring gear
Point Buy
STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 9
CHA 15
stat bumps to STR and CHA at lvls 4 and 8
His main strategy is to up his damage not with size, but with magic and effects that give you more damage. Fiendish boon should usually be used to give you unholy, or vicious and keen. Bull's STR yields an extra +2 hit and +3 damage, and Invisibility lets you get that same 50% miss chance that displacement would, even if it's only for a round. Scrolls of Greater Invisibility are 525 gp, and last more rounds, and you only need to make a CL check to use it DC 8, meaning you need to roll a 2 or better on a d20 to use the scroll successfully.
Conductive and Bane are much better ways of spending your money than an Impact Weapon imo, so I would worry less about trying to stack size damage and worry more about to hit.
You could try and get your DM to approve Unsanctioned Knowledge and gain Alter Self which will let you get yourself a nice stacking +2 size bonus to your STR which won't give you a negative on attack rolls like actually getting bigger does.
I really appreciate all the time you spent on that really cool dhampir, but it's not the right for me for this campaign. I will probably use something similar another time, but gm says no alt dhampir. He okayed tiefling/aasimar variants due to campaign flavor.
And I really want to play one of those.
So, here is my (incorrectly formatted) character attempt #1.
Feedback on equipment is most welcomed. Feat optimization too.
GM says there will be multiple combats (3-8) per adventuring day (not session), so staying power and combat viability are important.
Angel heritage aasimar antipaladin 9
Str 18 (20 w/belt, 24 w/righteous might), Dex 13 (11 w/righteous might), Con 16 (20 w/righteous might), Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 20 (22 w/headband)
HP 91 (58 + 27 Con + 6 fav class); 109 with righteous might
AC 21 T 11 FF 20 (29 vs target of smite)
Righteous might AC: AC 21, T 9, FF 21
DR 5/good with righteous might
Fort +16 (18 w/r.m.)
Ref +11 (10 w/r.m.)
Will +11
BAB +9/+4, CMB +14, CMD 25 (+3 CMB/CMD w/r.m.)
+1 outsider (good) bane conductive longsword
+16/+11 (2d6+8) 19-20
With righteous might:
+17/+12 (3d6+11)
Smiting:
+22/+17 (3d6+26//17)
Righteous might + smite:
+23/+18 (3d6+29//20)
Righteous might + smite + touch of corruption + bane + unholy vs Outsider (good) creatures:
+25/+20 (3d6+31//22+4d6+cruelty (DC 20)+2d6 bane +2d6 unholy)
Vital Strike when I cannot full attack.
Power Attacking grants +6 damage at the expense of -2 to hit.
Skills: Fly +11 (+19 with fly spell, -2 whenever Large), Intimidate +9, Linguistics +1, UMD +20
-3 armor check penalty not factored in
Languages: Common, Celestial, Abyssal, Draconic
Feats:
1-Power Attack, 3- WF (greatsword), 5- Extra Lay on Hands, 7-Vital Strike, 9- Extra Lay on Hands
Race stuff-
Outsider (native), darkvision 60ft, fly 20ft (poor), resist acid/cold/electricity 5, truespeaker
Traits-
Dangerously curious, rich parents
Class-
Aura of evil, detect good, oath of vengeance, smite goid 3/day, unholy resilience, touch of corruption 13/day, aura of cowardice, plague bringer, cruelties (sickened 9 rds, staggered 4 rds, or nauseated 3 rds), spells, aura of despair, fiendish boon 2/day
Spells (CL 6th); DC 16+lvl; protection from (alignment) x4, corruption resistance, eagle's splendor x2
Equipment:
Chest- Tattoos of Righteous Might (50 charges, custom item), Cha headband +2, Str belt +2, +1 cloak of resistance, wand of cure light wounds (50 charges), wand of fly (20 charges), wand of displacement (20 charges), +1 bane conductive greatsword, comp longbow, 100 arrows, +1 mithral dastard full plate, hvy wooden shield, longsword, haversack (free to all PCs), 26 days trail rations, 2 waterskins, mw Fly skill tool, mw UMD skill tool, mw Perception skill tool. No gold left.
Thoughts? Improvements?
My other option I am considering is the same build, but a demon-spawn tiefling (5 Int, no natural flight, oversized limbs granting Large base weapon, no Perception skill item, otherwise same).
Sorry, Power Attack is -3/+9.
That's pretty good. I might use something similar in my upcoming evil campaign...
I ended up saving a chunk of gp by keying a lot of the magic items to my alihnment/class. Was able to get some more gear that way.