JohnnyOneLung
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Take Skill Focus: Knowledge:Arcana from the Half Elf at creation.
At level 3 take Eldritch Heritage: Arcane. (Bonded Item for a floating extra spell slot)
With this, at level 6 I can cast Paragon Surge, and select the feat "Expanded Arcana" and open up a choice of any of the Cleric/Oracle on the fly.
At level 11 when I cast Paragon Surge again and instead of Expanded Arcana, I opt for Improved Eldritch Heritage. Which lets me choose one spell from the Sorcerer / Wizard spell list and put it on mine.
Have I found a back door into Arcane & Divine casting or does it not work?
| The Chort |
Haha, I contemplated that combo for an Oracle character of mine, but opted for an Aasimar Oracle instead. (Really like their favored class bonus)
Given the Expanded Arcana/Paragon Surge combo works in your group, I can't see why not this. Indeed, access to almost any divine or arcane spell on the fly. A little slow and takes multiple spells, but who cares when you have that much massive flexibility?
EDIT: Also also, I was building Oracle of Life GMNPC, and I didn't want it to have abilities too flashy. For a PC? Go all out.
| Mortalis |
Derp! Missed that.
EDIT: Actually I'm still not sure that works.
New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.
Does the bolded line refer to:
A) the charisma minimum.
B) your literal ability to cast arcane spells of x level and therefore be sorcerer class level dependent, or
C) Both.
Methinks C.
| Mortalis |
See, this is where I disagree. A 12th level Oracle has the ability to 6th level divine spells, not 6th level spells in general.
For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer.
New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.
The strictest interpretation of this feat gives you the ability to add a power that you treat as having a sorcerer level -2 to use. Good so far.
The New Arcana bloodline power gives you a free sorcerer/wizard spell, which for the purposes of level eligibility you treat your class level as a Sorcerer with 2 less levels. Great.
My argument is that the "New Arcana" power doesn't give you any special ability to cast said spell, only to add it to your list of arcane spells known. It doesn't magically become divine, and IEH doesn't extend to your spell list.
| Phasics |
See, this is where I disagree. A 12th level Oracle has the ability to 6th level divine spells, not 6th level spells in general.
PRD wrote:For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer.
New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.
The strictest interpretation of this feat gives you the ability to add a power that you treat as having a sorcerer level -2 to use. Good so far.
The New Arcana bloodline power gives you a free sorcerer/wizard spell, which for the purposes of level eligibility you treat your class level as a Sorcerer with 2 less levels. Great.
My argument is that the "New Arcana" power doesn't give you any special ability to cast said spell, only to add it to your list of arcane spells known. It doesn't magically become divine, and IEH doesn't extend to your spell list.
By that logic a Fire Oracle would not be allowed to cast Fireball because its not a divine spell.
and there's this little line in her Spell rules
"She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time."
| Ximen Bao |
See, this is where I disagree. A 12th level Oracle has the ability to 6th level divine spells, not 6th level spells in general.
PRD wrote:For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer.
New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.
The strictest interpretation of this feat gives you the ability to add a power that you treat as having a sorcerer level -2 to use. Good so far.
The New Arcana bloodline power gives you a free sorcerer/wizard spell, which for the purposes of level eligibility you treat your class level as a Sorcerer with 2 less levels. Great.
My argument is that the "New Arcana" power doesn't give you any special ability to cast said spell, only to add it to your list of arcane spells known. It doesn't magically become divine, and IEH doesn't extend to your spell list.
The feat says to add a spell from the sorc/wiz list to your list. It doesn't say from the sorc/wiz list to your arcane spell list. Such a thing does not exist AFAIK, you simply have a list of spells for each spell-casting class you have.
It does raise the interesting question of what happens if you have spell lists from two classes when you take the feat.
| Phasics |
It does raise the interesting question of what happens if you have spell lists from two classes when you take the feat.
It would only apply to one class as in all other instances of 2 spell lists you have to choose which one is affected. The same way you can't mix the spell lists if you have two caster classes
| Mortalis |
By that logic a Fire Oracle would not be allowed to cast Fireball because its not a divine spell.
That is admittedly something I hadn't considered, so you are probably right. Although, on a slightly different topic, doesn't that mean that a level 6 Fire Oracle could qualify for Eldritch Knight if they had Martial Weapon proficiency?
To clarify that, what is there to stop a Fire Oracle/L1Fighter with fireball and sufficient BAB from becoming an Eldritch Knight?
| Mortalis |
Bard probably wasn't the best example, but I get what you're saying. I guess I just had this preconceived notion that there was an important difference between Arcane & Divine spells, even though it's just nitpicking who can cast what from one big list.
Eh, I blame white & black magic from Final Fantasy. Thanks for taking the time to explain.