Dragon With Dragon Style 1.5str+1.5str?

[DrDew]

Dragons get 1.5xstr bonus to their bite attacks
Assume the dragon is a monk with the feral combat training feat.

Dragon Style also gives gives 1.5xstr bonus to the first attack.

If the bite is the first attack what's the multiplier on str bonus? 2? 2.5? 1.5?

[BigNorseWolf]

1) The dragon would need feral combat training to do this.

2) 1.5 x. Two abilities to do the exact same thing are simply redundant, they don't stack. With feral combat training it would however allow a 1.5X str tailslap or something.

[Rynjin]

It's 2x.

Note that Dragon Style is 1.5x Str on the first hit, while Ferocity is +1/2 Str (something effectively the same, but different) on ALL hits.

So the first hit does 2x Str and the subsequent ones do 1.5x.

In the case of your dragon, Dragon Style with FCT on the Bite is redundant (they do the same thing), but Ferocity would still add the extra 1/2 Str to the bite, for a 2x Str multiplier on all of the Bites.

So in combination you could have something like Feral Combat Training: Wings as well and have 2x Str to that too (on the first hit).

[Serisan]

I disagree on point 2, BNW. I'd interpret it to follow the crit rule, where you add them together and subtract 1 for each additional, making the total bonus 2x.

[DrDew]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

1) The dragon would need feral combat training to do this.

2) 1.5 x. Two abilities to do the exact same thing are simply redundant, they don't stack. With feral combat training it would however allow a 1.5X str tailslap or something.

Makes sense. I think critical multiplier progression was pushing its way into my head while I was thinking about the str multiplier and was causing confusion.

[DrDew]

Serisan wrote:

I disagree on point 2, BNW. I'd interpret it to follow the crit rule, where you add them together and subtract 1 for each additional, making the total bonus 2x.

I guess I'm not the only one who had that thought then.

[LazarX]

DrDew wrote:

Dragons get 1.5xstr bonus to their bite attacks

Assume the dragon is a monk with the feral combat training feat.

Dragon Style also gives gives 1.5xstr bonus to the first attack.

If the bite is the first attack what's the multiplier on str bonus? 2? 2.5? 1.5?

Just no on this. Just simply no. For a dragon, "dragon style" are the natural attacks it gets in the bestiary. If you don't think they're nasty enough, try the "Crush" maneuver sometime.

[Rynjin]

LazarX wrote:

Just no on this. Just simply no. For a dragon, "dragon style" are the natural attacks it gets in the bestiary. If you don't think they're nasty enough, try the "Crush" maneuver sometime.

Are you trying to imply Dragons can't take Feats?

Because that would be kinda silly.

[DrDew]

LazarX wrote:

DrDew wrote:

Dragons get 1.5xstr bonus to their bite attacks

Assume the dragon is a monk with the feral combat training feat.

Dragon Style also gives gives 1.5xstr bonus to the first attack.

If the bite is the first attack what's the multiplier on str bonus? 2? 2.5? 1.5?

Just no on this. Just simply no. For a dragon, "dragon style" are the natural attacks it gets in the bestiary. If you don't think they're nasty enough, try the "Crush" maneuver sometime.

Dragon style is simply a combat style feat. Its name is irrelevant to the ability to take the feat. Call it xorn style if it bothers you. It does the same thing.

[Mathius]

I would lean towards the bite doing 2x damage even with out ferocity.

[Kazaan]

In keeping with Pathfinder Math, I hold with the view that it would deal, with Dragon Style alone, 2x Str damage. Dragon bite attack gives you +50% to the default 1x Str multiplier and Dragon Style also gives you +50%; combined, that's +100% multiplier which is equivalent to x2 Str. Throwing Dragon Ferocity on top would raise the net value to 2.5x, though it would come out a little less if your Str mod were an odd value. To illustrate, with a +9 Str mod, your Bite would get +18 plus a separate +4 untyped bonus (4.5, but truncated to 4).

[vorpaljesus]

It'll be 1.5+.5.

Also, yes you'll need feral combat training and the dragon style line will only apply to the attack you chose for feral combat training, which must also be an attack with which you have weapon focus. So, no 1.5 STR tail attack as someone mentioned earlier, since you'll be taking FCT with the bite attack.

[EvilPaladin]

DrDew wrote:

Its name is irrelevant to the ability to take the feat.

So much this. Many feats and abilities have a name that isn't actually too relevant to what it does. Sneak Attack doesn't actually have to be all that sneaky, Combat Expertise doesn't actually make you more of an expert in combat, Sap Adept/Master* doesn't make you better with saps, Enforcer doesn't help you enforce things, etc. Arguing something doesn't work because of feat name is kinda silly IMO.

*:

Yeah, it makes you better with saps, when attacking a flat-footed enemy, and it doesn't only apply to saps