Ways to stack fear?

[rangerjeff]

In general, as far as you know. Searched but didn't find anything approaching comprehensive, pulling together all the various class abilities, traits, feats, spells, magic items, etc.

Specifically, I'm making a Bard, and as a high Cha character with Intimidate as a Class skill, I'm wondering what options I might have for applying the Shaken condition a second time, elevating the fear level to Afraid. Yeah, Panicked would be great, too, but I'll take Afraid if that's all I can get easily.

[TwoWolves]

If you find out, you let me know. They changed the rules on this a few printings of the CRB back, and then changed them again. I had a similar concept (fear-stacking bard) and I have mostly abandoned the concept, but not the character.

His fear sources are/were:

Intimidate (which now no longer contributes to fear stacking, I believe)
Cause Fear/Fear spells
Dazzling Display
Blistering Invective spell
Cornugon Strike (I think, free Intimidate on a Power Attacking hit)
Impressive Presence or some such, (Taldor faction trait, 1/day full round action, all adjacent foes make a Will save vs 10+ 1/2 HD + Chr mod, IIRC).
Dirge of Doom (also isn't supposed to stack)

These fit my concept at the time. I moved him away from fear stacking and now just into "consistant Intimidate-based debuffing".

[Imbicatus]

I'm curious on this too. I have an idea for a Intimidate monk that capitalizes on Medusa'a Wrath and Snake style for an obscene number of attacks per round.

[rangerjeff]

Ah, right, missed that Intimidate doesn't contribute on either end of the equation to fear stacking. I had thought that you could start by Intimidating for Shaken, then apply other non-Intimidate fear effects to get Afraid or Panicked. But that it didn't work the other way around, so you couldn't Cause Fear for Afraid then Intimidate for Panicked. Basically that Intimidate couldn't raise a target above Shaken, but that once Shaken from Intimidate other effects could be applied. If that doesn't work, then there's no way my concept can work through Intimidate, so nevermind.

Still going to see about Weapon Focus/Dazzling Display, Shaken is a great debuff all by itself.

[TwoWolves]

At one point, the wording was akin to "Intimidate doesn't stack with anything" but I don't know if that still holds true.

Also, if you are going bard, get Blistering Invective. Lvl 2 spell, intimidate all foes within 30', those that are shaken take 1d10 fire damage and are on fire, taking 1d6/rnd until they put themselves out. Ranged debuff plus a little DoT, not bad.

[Finlanderboy]

dirty trick can cause shaken. So that can stack. Intimidate to demolarize does not stack with itself. So if you cause fear to shaken, dirty trick to frighten, and then demolarize they will become paniced.

[rangerjeff]

Well, that's the way I read it at first...

"Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause an opponent to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition."

See, right off the PRD, doesn't say anything about it not stacking except it not with itself. But then others have been saying that Intimidate doesn't stack with anything, and nothing stacks with Intimidate.

Well, I'm going with the PRD, unless there's an errata I'm missing that the PRD doesn't cover for some reason...

[TwoWolves]

Well, I went digging a bit. Here's what the offical CRB errata Update 1.2 — Release Date: 08/20/10 says:

Quote:

Page 99—In the Intimidate skill, add the following

sentence after the first sentence of the Demoralize paragraph:
"This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken
conditions to make an affected creature frightened."

My fourth printing PDF does not have this language in it, nor does my 5th printing PDF.

The 1st to 6th printing errata says "Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition."

So it seems that in 2009, it did stack, then in 2010, it no longer stacked, and now it possibly does. I can't be sure as it's really hard to disprove a negative, and the FAQ has zero to say about it.

Perhaps a FAQ button hit is in order?

Formally stated: Can Intimidate to Demoralize create a greater state of fear if used in conjunction with any other source of fear that produces another state of being shaken or frightened, such as from a spell (Fear, Cause Fear), feat or trait?

Additionally, is the fear state (shaken) created by the spell "Blistering Invective" the same as that caused by a successful use of the Intimidate skill to Demoralize, or is it a spell effect like "Fear"?

[Reecy]

So here is what you do as a Bard

Cause Fear
Shaken 1 round or Frightened
If you are Frightened Intimidate takes it to Panicked

This can also be done Vise Versa

You also have the Spook Scare then Vision of Hell...

You do get the Dirge of Doom Class feature which will also cause a Creature to be shaken. Cast Spook to get to frightened then Use Intimidate to panick.

Technically you could use Performance as a Bard then use Intimidate... You are inspiring emotions, there is no where it states you couldnt do it lol.

[TwoWolves]

The bardic Dirge of Doom specifically states that it cannot cause a creature to become more than shaken.

[Reecy]

Right.. So then you cast Cause Fear They Save and since they are Shaken it goes to Frightened even if they Save

Then you INTIMIDATE