[PFS] Half-Orc Alternate racial traits compatible with Orc bloodline?


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Considering the following alternate racial traits from the ARG for Half-Orcs:

Acute Darkvision: Some half-orcs have exceptionally sharp darkvision, gaining darkvision 90 feet. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

Skilled: Second- and third-generation half-orcs often favor their human heritage more than their orc heritage. Half-orcs with this trait gain 1 additional skill rank per level. This racial trait replaces darkvision.

How do they interact with the Orc bloodline arcana?

Orc Bloodline Arcana: You gain the orc subtype, including darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity. If you already have darkvision, its range increases to 90 feet. (other part omitted, as it is irrelevant)

1° Acute Darkvision x Orc BA: I guess DV doesn't increase to 120 feet, does it?

2° Skilled x Orc BA: Does the DV upgrade to 90 feet before being replaced, or is it replaced first, then the Orc BA gives you DV 60 feet?


Lithrac wrote:

Considering the following alternate racial traits from the ARG for Half-Orcs:

Acute Darkvision: Some half-orcs have exceptionally sharp darkvision, gaining darkvision 90 feet. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

Skilled: Second- and third-generation half-orcs often favor their human heritage more than their orc heritage. Half-orcs with this trait gain 1 additional skill rank per level. This racial trait replaces darkvision.

How do they interact with the Orc bloodline arcana?

Orc Bloodline Arcana: You gain the orc subtype, including darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity. If you already have darkvision, its range increases to 90 feet. (other part omitted, as it is irrelevant)

1° Acute Darkvision x Orc BA: I guess DV doesn't increase to 120 feet, does it?

2° Skilled x Orc BA: Does the DV upgrade to 90 feet before being replaced, or is it replaced first, then the Orc BA gives you DV 60 feet?

1. Nothing says it "adds +30 feet to darkvision". They all state a replacement number. You'd have 90 feet darkvision. That's very good.

2. Skilled replaces darkvision. You have no dark vision ability from your racial traits to upgrade. The Orc BA adds darkvision. You gain darkvision from a class ability. It would be at 60 feet.

From the looks of it, choosing the Skilled and Acute Darkvision traits, you can replace Orc Ferocity with getting +1 skill point per level PLUS getting darkvision to 90 feet. Interesting.


That's what I thought/hoped for. Thanks!

The Exchange

or you could just pick human (that would give you the Skilled Racial Traits plus an extra feat) and then take the Orc Bloodline Arcana. You get the same results with an added feat.


Except I wouldn't get the added fire spells damage bonus (favored class from half-orc) or the +1 bonus to all saves (racial trait replacing orc ferocity). Most of all, the fluff would be completely different, and I wanted this character to be a half-orc.


Rory wrote:
From the looks of it, choosing the Skilled and Acute Darkvision traits, you can replace Orc Ferocity with getting +1 skill point per level PLUS getting darkvision to 90 feet. Interesting.

Yes, it is. But then you'd miss the +1 luck bonus to all saves that also replaces orc ferocity. Between 30 additional feet of DV and +1 to all saves, my decision's made.


Lithrac wrote:
Rory wrote:
From the looks of it, choosing the Skilled and Acute Darkvision traits, you can replace Orc Ferocity with getting +1 skill point per level PLUS getting darkvision to 90 feet. Interesting.
Yes, it is. But then you'd miss the +1 luck bonus to all saves that also replaces orc ferocity. Between 30 additional feet of DV and +1 to all saves, my decision's made.

I wasn't talking about your particular build with that comment. I was talking about a general case. Getting +1 skill point per level and 90 feet darkvision for the cost of Orc Ferocity is rather nice.

The Exchange

I see what your doing now. and RAW looks like it would work. You would have the light sensitivity but you would have that with the orc bloodline anyway.

I am not sure I would allow you to take Acute Darkvision and Skilled alternate racial traits. If you take skilled you have no Darkvision to take Acute Darkvision. I can see getting darkvision back with the Orc bloodline but not with the Acute Darkvision trait.

I think of it like this, as zero level half orc you would be skilled and Acute darkvision would not be available then at 1st level you would get the darkvision back due to the sorcerer level. Does my logic make any sense?


It does, and I come to the same conclusion as you, since you're supposed to pick race first, pick alternate racial traits (if any), then pick a class and bloodline.


Elladan Sindanarie wrote:

I am not sure I would allow you to take Acute Darkvision and Skilled alternate racial traits. If you take skilled you have no Darkvision to take Acute Darkvision. I can see getting darkvision back with the Orc bloodline but not with the Acute Darkvision trait.

I don't disagree with your line thought. I was looking at pure RAW.

Acute Darkvision: Some half-orcs have exceptionally sharp darkvision, gaining darkvision 90 feet. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

Skilled: Second- and third-generation half-orcs often favor their human heritage more than their orc heritage. Half-orcs with this trait gain 1 additional skill rank per level. This racial trait replaces darkvision.

Skilled replaces Darkvision and Acute Darkvision replaces Orc Ferocity.

Net effect, per RAW, is that you'd lose Orc Ferocity to gain 90 feet darkvision and +1 skill/level.

There might be a typo in Acute Darkvision in that it should replace Darkvision and Orc Ferocity instead of just replacing Orc Ferocity.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

@Rory,

Based on how the Fetchling is written, I think the correct text would be "This racial trate replaces orc ferocity and modifies darkvision."


Matthew Morris wrote:
Based on how the Fetchling is written, I think the correct text would be "This racial trate replaces orc ferocity and modifies darkvision."

The bottom line is that this might be a typo to be flagged and fixed.

I'm not sure how to go about doing that.

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