Bonus mystery spells on spell list before you get them?

[Baron Set]

Ok, I have a question about a specific issue I've encountered. I'm not sure if this is the place to post it, but here goes.

If I have a character that only takes 1 level of Oracle, my understanding is that he is then able to use spell-activation items (scrolls, wands) of the spells that are on the oracle class list, regardless of spell level, without a UMD check. In other words, even with only a single level of oracle he could use a wand of cure moderate wounds.

But what about spells that are not on the spell list normally, but are related to your mystery? Say I pick the battle mystery, which adds enlarge person at level 2. Can I use a wand of enlarge person at level 1, or does it get "added" to my spell list at level 2?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Nitro Boommaker]

Dot. I would like to know an answer, or at least a consensus.

[Rory]

A ranger (one example) doesn't gain the class feature to cast spells until 4th level. He technically has no caster level at all at 3rd level. Despite, the general concensus ruling is that a ranger can use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds at 1st level.

I think that sets a precedence to allow a level 1 battle oracle to use a scroll or wand of Enlarge Person.

[DM_Blake]

It's not a "general consensus". The Core Rulebook says, in the Spell-Trigger section, "Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin."

So it's RAW that paladins and rangers, etc., can use a wand even before they can cast any spells at all.

As to the OP's question, there are two ways that spells get "added" to a character. One of those ways, the rules say "added to her class list". In these cases, it's very clear that the spells belong to the whole class and are therefore eligible for wand (etc.) use. The other way is that they are "bonus spells" which does not specifically add them as class spells.

The oracle's mystery spells are this second type. As far as I can tell, it is not clear that this would allow wand (etc.) use. If the GM rules that these "bonus spells" are on the oracle's class list, then the oracle can use wands of those spells even if she doesn't have the class level to cast them. If the GM rules that these are "bonus spells" and not added to the class list, then the oracle cannot use wands of them (arguable, the oracle cannot ever use wands of them even if she can personally cast them).

That parenthetical argument is a bit ridiculous, saying a level 2 battle oracle can cast enlarge person but cannot use a wand of enlarge person would be rather silly. Based on that, I'd argue for the first interpretation, assume they become "class spells" when the mystery is chosen, and allow wands, even before the appropriate class level.

[Rory]

DM_Blake wrote:

It's not a "general consensus". The Core Rulebook says, in the Spell-Trigger section, "Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin."

Thanks.

My "general concensus ruling" wording should have been the more powerful "RAW ruling".

[j b 200]

If you're not a high enough level to cast the spell on the spell completion item then you do have to make a CL check, DC is scrolls CL +1, so if the CL is 3 and your caster level is 1, you have to roll a 3 to use the spell completion item correctly.

[Fromper]

I knew I'd asked this same question before, but in the context of cleric domain spells. And there's an official answer from Sean K. Reynolds of Paizo staff, where he says:

Quote:

Yes, you should consider those spells as part of the character's class spell list.

[Baron Set]

Awesome! Thank you all for the responses! This makes that oracle dip a much better idea...

[DM_Blake]

So, SKR says "bonus spells" count as class spell list, and the wording in clerics regarding domain "bonus spells" is pretty much identical to the wording in oracles regarding mystery "bonus spells", so that's good enough for me (it doesn't hurt that it confirms my own conclusion anyway).