Can I buff (haste / heroism / prayer) summoned monsters with SR (Azata Bralanis?)

[divby0]

Hello everyone,

my cleric summons Azata Bralani with SM V. Can the Azata with SR benefit from buff spells like heroism, haste and prayer?

Thank you

[Halfling Barbarian]

As a standard action a creature can lower it's sr. Otherwise sr applies, roll a caster level check to beat sr as normal. Many gms (myslef included) won't let sr stop a desirable effect.

[Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan]

Of course, if your summons are spending their standard action every round lowering their SR, they probably aren't doing the job you summoned them to do in the mean time.

[Imbicatus]

I'd rule that once they allow the SR to drop, it is down until they use another action to being it back up. Of course, I'd allow it to be dropped as a swift action instead of standard, but that's a house rule.

[Majuba]

Here's the rule, in the Magic Chapter, Spell Resistance section of the Core Rulebook:

PRD wrote:

The terms “object” and “harmless” mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by such spells without forcing the caster to make a caster level check.

I don't like this rule, but it's well established (same language in 3.0 and 3.5). The really odd thing is that "mean the same thing..." part is really wrong. For saving throws, you can *choose* to make a saving throw, but don't have to. The way this is written, having the (harmless) flag on SR is meaningless.

[Majuba]

FAQ Question:

Core Rulebook:
The Spell Resistance section of the Magic chapter states the (harmless) flag in SR means the same as for saving throws, i.e. "a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires". It then continues that a target must lower resistance to be affected without a caster level check. Which is correct?

[wraithstrike]

By the rules they have to use a standard action to drop it. It comes up automatically on their next turn.

[Buri]

Majuba wrote:

FAQ Question:

Core Rulebook:
The Spell Resistance section of the Magic chapter states the (harmless) flag in SR means the same as for saving throws, i.e. "a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires". It then continues that a target must lower resistance to be affected without a caster level check. Which is correct?

This doesn't make sense as SR does not mean a check for the target but one for the caster. If a check were optional then the caster rather than the target would be making the check. Imagine how scary it would be if a caster simply *chose* to not make a check and their attempt automatically succeeding.

[Majuba]

The idea is that the (harmless) flag lets a targeted creature automatically choose not to resist a spell by not making a saving throw. Despite saying the same thing since 3.0, I think what was originally conceived with that language was that the target with SR could automatically choose not to resist a harmless spell by not using it's SR.

There may have been an original decision back in 3.0 to not allow that, but the language hints that an original draft may have allowed it.

[Buri]

SR is entirely passive. You don't choose to resist or not. It's just there. In fact, you have to will it to go away and even that's only temporary unless you keep willing it away.

[Lord Twig]

It seems that a large number of people on this board believe that having SR prevent beneficial effects is such a detriment to the character that having SR is actually a penalty, rather than a bonus. And I can see their point. What character is going to want innate spell resistance if they know that their party cleric will have to overcome it to save their life with a healing spell?

If that is true that SR is more of a hindrance than a help, wouldn't it make sense to rule that a character can chose to not resist beneficial spells? I think that the reason there hasn't been a bigger push to fix SR is that it is such a non-nonsensical rule that the majority of groups either house-rule it or, if they don't, just don't use it at all.