Originally she was just one of the Amazons, born to Hippolyta the normal way, and her super strength and such came from Amazon training. And because THAT was the origin used in the Lynda Carter series (which largely drew from the earliest Golden Age stuff and then went from there), I would say that is the origin the mainstream is most familiar with (and thus would be what "everyone" knows).
That's true, but some people grew up watching the old "Super Friends" animated TV show, which said that Diana was made of clay, and that she was the strongest and fastest Amazon, so there may be just a few "everyones" who know that origin.
Knockout's bi. There was a bit in one of the mini-series where she bedded Deadshot. Then offered to kill him because it upset Scandal.
That's right. Sorry Knockout. I think Knockout is one of few bi characters around. (Gail Simone noted once that she saw Black Canary as bi but they wouldn't let her do anything with that. I don't have a link, but she said it on Twitter.)
(And in my Wonder Woman Reboot, Jeanette at least would be a semi-recurring character)
Jeannette was AMAZING. Good call.
Originally she was just one of the Amazons, born to Hippolyta the normal way, and her super strength and such came from Amazon training. And because THAT was the origin used in the Lynda Carter series (which largely drew from the earliest Golden Age stuff and then went from there), I would say that is the origin the mainstream is most familiar with (and thus would be what "everyone" knows).That's true, but some people grew up watching the old "Super Friends" animated TV show, which said that Diana was made of clay, and that she was the strongest and fastest Amazon, so there may be just a few "everyones" who know that origin.
Really? I don't remember that at all. Ah well. Fair enough, but I think the live action show probably had a broader viewership than the cartoon. Even so, good point.
Anyway, I don't think it needs to be a fact for Diana that is incontrovertible. I don't think it's the equivalent of "saw parents murdered" or "last of his kind raised by a farmer and his wife." For her it's, in my opinion, that she's an Amazon, she's the best of her kind, and that the Amazons are a peace-loving race.
The character's origin, as first presented in "All-Star Comics" #8 in 1941, didn't say anything about being clay. If I recall correctly (from reading "Wonder Woman - Archives, Volume 1" years ago) she had many adventures in the pages of "Sensation Comics" without any revision of her origin, before the comic titled "Wonder Woman" got started. I believe (again, based on my unreliable memory) that Marston rewrote her origin, this time including the clay bit, in the first issue of the comic actually titled "Wonder Woman", in 1942. But I'm sure that the original story in A-SC didn't say anything about clay, because I have that one in "All Star Comics Archives Vol 2".
I will admit that nothing in the first origin story contradicts the clay part.
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Self promotion
I loved Jeanette, and when she confronts Wonder Woman about the 'what have your Amazons done for women over the last 2000 years bit' it got me thinking. Damn, villian has a point.
The character's origin, as first presented in "All-Star Comics" #8 in 1941, didn't say anything about being clay. If I recall correctly (from reading "Wonder Woman - Archives, Volume 1" years ago) she had many adventures in the pages of "Sensation Comics" without any revision of her origin, before the comic titled "Wonder Woman" got started. I believe (again, based on my unreliable memory) that Marston rewrote her origin, this time including the clay bit, in the first issue of the comic actually titled "Wonder Woman", in 1942. But I'm sure that the original story in A-SC didn't say anything about clay, because I have that one in "All Star Comics Archives Vol 2".
This is correct, when she got her own title, that origin was established. But it was not her first origin.
The earlier stories in All-Star and Sensation Comics suggested Wonder Woman's strength came from Amazon training techniques given them by Aphrodite. Part of this was with the agenda of teaching girls they could be strong if they believed in it, as suggested in this frame here:
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2610554
Amongst other places.
So it is not the first/origin source of her powers. Marston later come up with the clay idea probably to explain how Amazons reproduced without men (not my original speculation, but discussions I've seen).
Absolutely the clay story is a longtime origin, a known one, and the most often used. Not undercutting its existence or significance in the slightest.
But it's not the only origin of Wonder Woman, it is NOT the first, sorry thejeff, and it hasn't always been used. And personally I don't believe it is an essential part of her character. You are of course welcome to disagree on that last.
The other problem with Wonder Woman is that at her core... if she's done RIGHT, in the spirit that Marston created her (bondage jokes aside)... Wonder Woman is...
Well, she's nice.
Wonder Woman is a loving person. She's a loving person with warrior training, but she is kind. She is compassionate. She wants, ultimately, everybody to get along. Batman angsts because he witnessed the murder of his parents. Wonder Woman is sad sometimes because the world in general has so much anger and violence in it. The difference between Wonder Woman and Batman is that Wonder Woman believes humanity can eventually be taught to shed its violet ways.
And nobody wants to write nice superheroes these days. They all have to be "dark and edgy and gritty."
Which is a shame, cause frankly, personally? I am g**$$!n sick of all the angst. I actually like watching a superheroine who just accepts what she is, goes out, helps people, and kick ass.
I think when I get home from work tonight, I might pull out my Gail Simone trades and pop in a Lynda Carter DVD. Sounds like a good night.
This is what "I" would like to see more of. For me the high point of Wonder woman pretty much WAS the Lynda Carter series. There are certain things about WW that annoy me in the 'modern world'
1) She's got to be EQUAL to superman. Why? No LOGICAL reason... Batman isn't Superman's physical equal... why does Wonder woman need to be? She is super strong. She has her Jet, she has awesome combat moves... that's a pretty sweet powerset. She doesn't NEED to be able to move the moons orbit...
2) Her powers should NOT be natural. The basis of her Origin... is that she competed in a contest to earn the right to come to 'man's world'... If she has all her powers naturally... then frankly she CHEATED. Bring back the super friends origin/concept, give her the bulletproof Bracelets, the belt of strength, the lasso... Going back to 1... when you maker her 'gifted by the gods' then she CHEATED in the contest, the bracelts are pointless since she's bulletproof, jet is pointless since she can fly... etc. etc.
It really diminishes her awesomeness if most of it is pointless but kept for tradition...
3) Make her GOOD. The amazons were a warrior race. THOUSANDS of years ago... Frankly I'm unable to read anything with her swinging a battle axe or snapping necks or basically 'killing' her enemies.
Wonder Woman is meant to be a SYMBOL... her symbolism is what should make her in 'the trinity' not her power set. the 80's and 90's were about her bringing her wisdom to 'man's world' to preach peace... She's one of the most violent ones out there lately O.O
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Wonder Woman is meant to be a SYMBOL... her symbolism is what should make her in 'the trinity' not her power set. the 80's and 90's were about her bringing her wisdom to 'man's world' to preach peace... She's one of the most violent ones out there lately O.O
Ah yes, Wonder Woman, 'bringing her message of peace to man's world' by snapping fool's necks since 2005.
Ugh.
Especially wasteful now that DC owns Wildstorm. Zealot and her Coda warrior/assassins are pretty much *exactly* a more militant sort of 'Amazon.' No need to re-invent that wheel by making the Paradise Island crew into a bunch of neck-snappers and head-choppers.
Agreed. From your earlier post, I'd gotten the impression you were claiming it wasn't the Golden Age origin at all, not just that it hadn't appeared in the first few stories.
I specifically referenced "the earliest Golden Age [stories]," which was accurate. I did not intend to imply anything else. I apologize if I was unclear.
Ah yes, Wonder Woman, 'bringing her message of peace to man's world' by snapping fool's necks since 2005.
Ugh.
I actually don't mind the Max Lord storyline. Her choice was kill him, or let him mind control Superman to destroy the world, and that was confirmed by her lasso. I think it was manipulative and annoying to build up the story so that that WAS the only choice, but with the circumstances set up as they were, it was the only outcome that makes sense. As much as I am a champion of Wonder Woman as an avatar of love, I think it was a RARE circumstance where the villain death was called for, and that moreover of the major heroes of the DCU, she was the only one with the spine to do it. She also turned herself in afterward.
But the point of it was that it was a VERY rare, extreme circumstance, and she was acting out of desire to protect her friend and the world, not out of vengeance or bloodlust. You can kill in the name of love, but you do it after all other options are explored and exhausted. I felt confident at the time that was the case. It was shocking that she killed because it IS something she'd avoid at all costs if she possibly could.
Turning her into just a violent warrior whose first solution to anything is to punch it is antithetical to what she's supposed to be about, however.
Currently the man at the helm of Wonder Woman was also known for this little seen scifi show called Babylon Five. His previous comic titles were "Midnight Nation" (one of my favorite all time series) and Rising Stars under the "Joe's Comics" label. His complete list here includes major titles from both of the Big Two
The current writer of Wonder Woman is Brian Azzarello. J. Michael Straczinski's run on Wonder Woman ended before the New 52 reboot, almost 2 years ago now.
I think the issue with Wonder Woman in the comics is that DC itself doesn't really know what to do with her. Generally, they want to largely attract a young, male audience and use very specific themes and tropes to do so. (Their sales reflect this)
As you correctly point out in another thread, it doesn't have to be this way - even with their "want to largely attract a young, male audience" point of view. :(
b) She uses tropes and themes that do not fit well into the contemporary DCU, because of this and other reasons (her more mythological origins, etc.)
I think the bigger problem is the general lack of decent quality writing in comicdom.
And nobody wants to write nice superheroes these days. They all have to be "dark and edgy and gritty."
Which is a shame, cause frankly, personally? I am g#*!%#n sick of all the angst. I actually like watching a superheroine who just accepts what she is, goes out, helps people, and kick ass.
Not just Superhero writers ...
I think the issue with Wonder Woman in the comics is that DC itself doesn't really know what to do with her. Generally, they want to largely attract a young, male audience and use very specific themes and tropes to do so. (Their sales reflect this)As you correctly point out in another thread, it doesn't have to be this way - even with their "want to largely attract a young, male audience" point of view. :(
b) She uses tropes and themes that do not fit well into the contemporary DCU, because of this and other reasons (her more mythological origins, etc.)I think the bigger problem is the general lack of decent quality writing in comicdom.
That may also well be the case. I think there are good writers out there, but they may not be in the majority.
Not just Superhero writers ...And nobody wants to write nice superheroes these days. They all have to be "dark and edgy and gritty."
Which is a shame, cause frankly, personally? I am g#*!%#n sick of all the angst. I actually like watching a superheroine who just accepts what she is, goes out, helps people, and kick ass.
Hmmm. I don't look a lot at those but mmm... maybe that's why I don't.
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Let me just respond to the original hypothetical.
These are the core features of Wonder Woman.
1) Feminism - Women should be equal to men in all ways.
2) Myth - Wonder Woman and her villains are deeply tied to Greek/Roman myths.
3) Peace - Wonder Woman is a genuinely good person who does what she does because she believes the world can be better.
Book 1
We open with WAR, the island of Themyscera is under attack by Khandaqi soldiers. Amazons vs. Semi-Automatics. The battle is not going well for the wonder women of Themyscera. We see WONDER WOMAN, the greatest of the Amazon warriors at the forefront of battle, the she is without her traditional tiara, lassoo and bracers, instead wielding a sword and shield (which she uses to deflect bullets and destroy weapons).
We freeze on a battle and zoom out. Steve Trevor is being briefed by the US Army. He is to fly in a UN ambassador to negotiate with the Amazons, the enemy of my enemy and all that. Steve and the ambassador hop in his jet and fly off to Themyscera.
The jet is shot down by Khandaqi soldiers and Steve manages crash the plane into the ocean. Steve Trevor blacks out.
When he awakens he is a prisoner of the Amazons. They suspect him of being a Khandaqi spy. He tells them this isn't true he was to fly in an ambassador to negotiate with the Themyscerans. The amazons call Steve a liar. He was the only person in the plane, but one amazon thinks differently. A black haired beauty, the Wonder Woman from the combat footage.
Cut to the ambassador running through the forest clutching a black box. He reaches the Khandaq command post, when he steps in front of the Khandaq forces he shifts shape from the ambassador to the Earl of Greed. "Lord Ares sends his regards."
The Khandaq general grins.
It is night, Steve Trevor believes he is to be executed in the morning. The Wonder Woman arrives, she tells Steve that she believes his story, when she rescued him from the ocean she thought she saw someone watching from the woods. She suspects his diplomat has been captured by Khandaq forces.
The pair head out into the Themysceran jungle to rescue the diplomat under cover of night. During the journey Steve learns of Wonder Woman's world, how she is the daughter of the queen of the Amazons. She learns of Steve's world ("The people choose who leads? That's such a beautiful idea.") Anyway this is where we exchange origin stories. Then the reach the Khandaq base, things rapidly turn to trouble but Wonder Woman is more than a match for these soldiers, and with Steve's help they fight their way through to the prison camp, freeing a bunch of amazons who inform the pair "There was no ambassador taken here."
Frustrated Steve rushes to the command tent to get answers from the Khandaq general himself and gets captured by the General and Earl Greed ("why are you wearing the ambassador's suit?")
That's when Wonder Woman bursts in and we get our big final battle as she rescues Steve from the Khandaq forces.
Book 2
While the Khandaq forces have been dealt a solid blow, Wonder Woman knows that the Themyscerans are outgunned (literally the enemies have guns). She pleads with Hypolita to accept US aid. Hypolita doesn't like the idea of more men coming to the island of Themyscera.
"We have women soldiers two your highness, maybe we can negotiate something?" Steve says.
Wonder Woman and the amazons pull Steve's plane out of the water. Montage of Steve fixing it and learning more about Amazon culture in the meantime, while he primes Diana on various points of American culture. Eventually the plane is fixed and Steve and WW head back to the US to ask for aid.
Here we have a plot by another of Ares' minions complicating things. Eventually WW is triumphant over the villain (gaining some media attention in the process) and we get the aid needed. During the issue WW discovers some of the uglier sides of life in the USA.
Book 3
The liberation of Themyscera. Battles, explosions, romance. Blah, blah blah. Ares himself shows up and has a big speech:
"You don't get it do you? Your world is no longer hidden away any more. You've allied yourself with the biggest bully on the planet. When they are at war you are at war. I. WIN."
The point is in the end Khandaq is forced to pull its forces out of Themyscera. Wonder Woman doesn't think her homeland is as safe as it could be. She realizes that Themyscera needs to take its place on the world stage. She offers to become the UN ambassador for Themyscera, so that her voice of peace may be heard across the world. Hypolita gives her daughter the lasso, bracers and tiara.
Boom: That's how you reboot Wonder Woman - She is an ambassador of peace, with a status quo (stop Ares' machinations of war) with a home base in New York (where the UN headquarters are). She'll discover that there are many "Mythic" villains hiding and manipulating the world from behind the scenes and that'll be a whole other sub-plot. Oh, and she'd wear PANTS.
Pre reboot, Wonder Woman's strength was granted by Gaea. So, she could literally be as strong as the planet if she needed to be.
Not quite in Superman's category, but she knew a lot more about how to fight then he did.
But, you know, Superman is like level 5 with the Kryptonian under a Yellow Sun template. Diana is at LEAST level 8.
==Aelryinth
Oh, and she'd wear PANTS.
I am sorry, but I cannot endorse this version of Wonder Woman. ;P
There's no reason to wear pants unless you ride horses. Trousers came about as a result of nomads riding horses all the time, and it brushed off as a 'manly' item to wear, and zing, trousers became male fashion. Before then, men and women both wore skirts, for all intents and purposes, and for the Scots, it never really went out of style. Women rode side saddle for a VERY long time, because they weren't permitted to wear trousers, and you can't ride a horse normally with skirts.
If she's not an equestrian, a greek style short skirt with greaves on thigh and calf makes more sense then pants, and is much more appropriate. Especially if she's at all temperature resistant.
Now, where the red go go boots are going to go, I don't know.
==Aelryinth
Agreed. From your earlier post, I'd gotten the impression you were claiming it wasn't the Golden Age origin at all, not just that it hadn't appeared in the first few stories.I specifically referenced "the earliest Golden Age [stories]," which was accurate. I did not intend to imply anything else. I apologize if I was unclear.
Ah yes, Wonder Woman, 'bringing her message of peace to man's world' by snapping fool's necks since 2005.
Ugh.
I actually don't mind the Max Lord storyline. Her choice was kill him, or let him mind control Superman to destroy the world, and that was confirmed by her lasso. I think it was manipulative and annoying to build up the story so that that WAS the only choice, but with the circumstances set up as they were, it was the only outcome that makes sense. As much as I am a champion of Wonder Woman as an avatar of love, I think it was a RARE circumstance where the villain death was called for, and that moreover of the major heroes of the DCU, she was the only one with the spine to do it. She also turned herself in afterward.
But the point of it was that it was a VERY rare, extreme circumstance, and she was acting out of desire to protect her friend and the world, not out of vengeance or bloodlust. You can kill in the name of love, but you do it after all other options are explored and exhausted. I felt confident at the time that was the case. It was shocking that she killed because it IS something she'd avoid at all costs if she possibly could.
Turning her into just a violent warrior whose first solution to anything is to punch it is antithetical to what she's supposed to be about, however.
...
Currently the man at the helm of Wonder Woman was also known for this little seen scifi show called Babylon Five. His previous comic titles were "Midnight Nation" (one of my favorite all time series) and Rising Stars under the "Joe's Comics" label. His complete list
I loved that storyline with the exception of a few parts.
All I can say at the moment is that I'm sad a lot of you aren't currently in charge of WW. :)
Nah. What DC needs to do is let Amanda Conner and Gail Simone reboot the title and keep it for a while. :)
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There's no reason to wear pants unless you ride horses. Trousers came about as a result of nomads riding horses all the time, and it brushed off as a 'manly' item to wear, and zing, trousers became male fashion. Before then, men and women both wore skirts, for all intents and purposes, and for the Scots, it never really went out of style. Women rode side saddle for a VERY long time, because they weren't permitted to wear trousers, and you can't ride a horse normally with skirts.
If she's not an equestrian, a greek style short skirt with greaves on thigh and calf makes more sense then pants, and is much more appropriate. Especially if she's at all temperature resistant.
Now, where the red go go boots are going to go, I don't know.
==Aelryinth
Well, the mythical Amazons certainly rode horses. They were in legend the greatest horse-tamers in the region (being associated with the Scythians). That's not enough of a reason, in itself... hence I would expect any "historical" Amazons to wear trousers. But then, people confuse Amazon with Greek, when the ancient Greeks used Amazons as examples of the ultimate fearsome barbarians.
I think she needs an iconic supervillain to start, and DC needs better writing and strong editorial direction for her. My observation is that an iconic supervillain makes a hero more heroic, and makes it easier to write the character. Joker frequently kills lots of innocents in crazy plans, and Lex Luthor always has complex plans that Superman has to thwart. It is easy to illustrate that Batman and Superman are heroes because they stop by bad guys. And if a writer is stuck, there is a formula for Superman and Batman stories to fall back on (Lex Luthor or Joker is up to no good and the hero must stop them).
Wonder Woman has recurring villains (Circe and Cheetah come to mind), but there are no defining stories involving Wonder Woman and an archenemy. It seems that when Wonder Woman sales aren't where DC would like them, they draw her with bigger boobs instead of improving the writing.
If I were writing a reboot, I would introduce a new villainess. The new archenemy would steal all of Wonder Woman's gear, and Wonder Woman would have to track down the gear to various locations and fight assorted supervillains. The earrings, bracelets, and lasso are important- each grants powers, and were intended to make Wonder Woman more appealing to female readers. The story would feature Diana doing detective work and fighting villains, a staple of Batman and Superman stories. The reboot would (re)introduce supporting non-powered characters, another important part of Superman and Batman stories.
I agree with this.
Wonder woman has had the problem of scaling power... she started out fairly weakish...and as such so did her enemies... But now she's grown to ungodly power levels, and her enemies just don't seem to be threats anymore....
I was talking with someone about a movie or series for her... and for the life us we couldn't think of a 'cool' enemy for her?? Cheetah is pretty lame... Dr. psycho I know nothing about but hte name... Ares is a god and kinda meh... who else is there that would be considered 'iconic'. Who is her Joker/Luthor/Sinestro/reverse flash/ etc...
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The Cheetah is a neat villain for her, because her raison d'etre has occasionally been deeper than 'punch people and send them to jail.' Her speed, and the 'magical' nature of her powers also fits well with Diana, as opposed to Batman (who isn't much into magic) and Superman (who can sometimes be dead weight against a magical foe, depending on the writer). Wonder Woman's attempts in the past to rescue Barbara Minerva from the influence of the Cheetah helped define the sort of hero she is. She's not just trying to stop her, she's trying to *save* her.
Circe could be her most frustrating villain, since she's quite possibly not redeemable (having nursed her hatred of men for thousands of years), and the 'in-story' reason for her 'evil' isn't as cut and dried as it would be for a mythical figure like Medea (who did horrible things, but at least has a rationale for how she felt betrayed and whatever, which could form the basis of a redemption arc).
Giganta is an odd one. Depending on which version of her origin is used, she's potentially a super-scientist able to devise means of switching her mind into different bodies, and with the ability to grow hundreds of feet tall and become ridiculously strong and durable. She seems like a physical powerhouse, but if she managed to switch her mind into the body of Diana, she could wreak very different kinds of havoc.
Silver Swan is another one. The second version was a bit interesting as she had been a friend of Wonder Woman's, then kidnapped and cybernetically augmented to become Silver Swan, and she blamed Wonder Woman on what happened to her. Although she could get irritatingly self pitying, but I liked the idea of a former friend turned enemy, because it really gets to Diana the way no other foe would.
There was an older villain called Dr. Cyber I kind of liked, but that may be through the filter of childhood memory.
GreenDragon, I don't know if they will use New52 WW --or any character -- for the Justice League movie. I imagine they will establish their own continuity. Most movies and TV shows haven't been paying much attention to the comics--if anything, if the movies and TV shows are popular, the comics change to match them, rather than the other way around. (If the movie or TV show sucks, they forge ahead.) For example, Arrow is firmly in its own Elseworlds, and most resembles Green Arrow Year One from years ago, than anything going on with Green Arrow in the DCnU.
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I'd say that it's not so much that Woman = Man in Wonder Woman originally. More "Woman and Man are equally powerful in different ways."
To me (warning! Sexism Alert!) Wonder Woman should embody more of a defensive style of fighting, and more a subdual method. Superman punches evil into unconsciousness. Batman outsmarts evil then throws things at it.
Wonder Woman should subdue her foes and try to redeem them. I see her fighting style (unarmed combat) being a mixture of Akido, Judo, and Pancration. While she can pick up thugs and throw them or 'punch evil' she is strong in her ability to use their strenghs against them.
Likewise, the comic would ideally have a 'Wonder Woman Rehab centre.' This is where the villains she beats are housed, and she visits, often. This isn't Arkham, where Batman seems to visit only to scare the crap out of the villians or drop them off. This is where Barbara Minerva is held to try to help seperate her from the influence of the Cheetah. This is where Silver Swan is going through physical therapy. This would be a challenge in the comic world, since most villians always get away, never change. Now there would be relapses, and some of the villians can't be saved, but while Wonder Woman would have 'eternal' villians like Circe or Dr. Psycho, she would have a number of villians who get better. This seperates her from Batman and Superman, but her love, and redemption are what make her strong, in a feminine way.
Now some villians aren't going to 'get better' because they don't think they're wrong. (Jeanette makes a good example here. She specifically hates Amazons for not doing anything for women through the centuries.)
As for 'iconic villians' for her? Vandal Savage comes to mind. He is very much a (what's the term for a male counterpart? Staff?) version of Wonder Woman in the incarnations I've seen, 10,000 years of Misogony in one package. He also makes a good foe because of his unkillable status. The fact that it opens up opportunities for Diana to oppose and work with Scandal is just a plus to me. :-)
If Vandal is Wonder Woman's Lex Luthor or Joker, I can see Barbara Minerva or Silver Swan being her Two Face. I'd love a story line where after defeating the Cheetah, and seperating the power from Barbara, you see the two of them working together and even being friends, then when they defeat (together!) the new Cheetah, and Barbara is holding the pendant, if she 'goes back' to being the villian, it makes it all the more heart wrenching. Espeically if you make it so the Cheetah was an accident/unwilling transformation the first time.
Jeanette is also an interesting counterpoint in this, in that she is the dark side of female empowerment. Kind of Red Hood to Nightwing. Dianna would want to see Vandal Savage punished for his crimes, Jeanette would want to see him emasculated, humiliated, and made to suffer. Dianna believes in redemption. Jeanatte believes death cures everything.
Wow that's long, but my two C-bills.
Back to the subject at hand.....
Check out the direct to DVD animated Wonder Woman film from a few years ago. I think it's pretty good, and would make the basis of a great reboot. It has all the classic elements, which is a plus.
Honestly, this was the best Wonder Woman thing I'd seen in YEARS! I really loved her personality and the power levels they gave her there.
The two characters really have nothing in common except for being heroes. Clark's a midwestern farm boy and Diana is a Princess out of mythology.
True... but to be fair, Clark and Lois really don't have anything in common. He's a quiet midwestern farm boy... and she's a brash obnoxious city girl. Sometimes opposites attract.
Honestly I think Diana and Clark are a BETTER match then lois ever was... they're both familiar with the 'outsider' feeling amongst humans... they both have strong ethics.. And of course the thrill of saving lives together. People who work together in the same clubhouse tend to have things in common ;)
Especially since they ditched her secret identity... wonder woman is 'always' in hero mode.
Of course this is the 'non-axe swinging' version of Wonder Woman... I don't see Superman falling for THAT version ;)
Disclaimer: Granted this is just my observation from the few in the last few decades I was able to read and am not a great authority on the subject many reboots/retcons/reimaginings....
Speaking of Secret IDs. I liked the reintroduction of Diana Prince after the Second Crisis. Donna had taken over as WW, Diana was trying to lay low after Max Lord. Bruce and Clark were worried about her. So Bruce concocted a Fake ID, Diana Prince. Ex-military, worked as a Security Expert for Wayne Enterprises for several years, set her up with a job a the Department Of Metahuman Affairs (DOMA). DOMA being partly a liaison to the Superheroes, and partly a police agency.
The best part of the whole deal, Clark crediting Bruce because "he worries".
Personally, I'm a fan of secret Ids, and believe ALL heroes need them. One of the big complaints about wonder woman is that she doesn't have a strong supporting cast and she isnt 'relatable'...
That's what the secret IDs are for. They may not make sense... they may be holdovers from tradion... but they really are an integral part to the superhero formula.
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Part of my comment from last night is missing.
Another irritation I have about New52 WW. When this new, modern, independent, 21st century, Diana isn't being identified by her daddy, she is being identified by who she is dating.
Strange how the Post Crisis reboot, she dated, but was never defined by it. Nice step back DC.
One thing I liked about JLU was the Bruce/Diana dynamic. There was something, nice, about the embodyment of love trying to show the embodyment of fear* how much more he had to give than he realized.
*
Back to the subject at hand.....
Check out the direct to DVD animated Wonder Woman film from a few years ago. I think it's pretty good, and would make the basis of a great reboot. It has all the classic elements, which is a plus.
*shrug* It was alright. The Amazons were too straw feministy, and Steve Trevor was way too important. Steve Trevor is a useless wet blanket and any story prominently featuring him is going to be a snooze, IMO. It's hard to put my finger on it, but every time you bring in Steve Trevor, even if you make him black and call him Trevor Barnes or put him in a deaging machine and call him Tom Tressor, he's just always bland and boring, no matter how many peach pits Diana tosses his way (if you don't understand that, don't worry about that). Who ever gets in the dreaded Steve Trevor role instantly becomes cardboard and vanilla, and the best Wonder Woman stories are without him. Part of it is damsels in distress are boring, regardless of their actual gender. Even the TV series figured that out and slowly wrote him out of the series--the TV series was not known for its stellar writing, but even it could tell when a character just didn't work. If you're gonna use Steve at all, I liked him best I think as Perez established him, an older guy who provides more mentorly advice to Diana on what "Man's World" is like, rather than a young man who is enraptured with her.
Really, Batman sums it up best.
Speaking of Secret IDs. I liked the reintroduction of Diana Prince after the Second Crisis. Donna had taken over as WW, Diana was trying to lay low after Max Lord. Bruce and Clark were worried about her. So Bruce concocted a Fake ID, Diana Prince. Ex-military, worked as a Security Expert for Wayne Enterprises for several years, set her up with a job a the Department Of Metahuman Affairs (DOMA). DOMA being partly a liaison to the Superheroes, and partly a police agency.
The best part of the whole deal, Clark crediting Bruce because "he worries".Personally, I'm a fan of secret Ids, and believe ALL heroes need them. One of the big complaints about wonder woman is that she doesn't have a strong supporting cast and she isnt 'relatable'...
That's what the secret IDs are for. They may not make sense... they may be holdovers from tradion... but they really are an integral part to the superhero formula.
I'm of two minds about the secret identity. The reason it was done away with was because Wonder Woman is/was seen as an emblem of truth... and you don't hide who you truly are if you're an emblem of truth. There is a logic to this I appreciate. It also follows in the universes where she is an Ambassador from Themyscira and basically needs to be herself at all times.
If she has a secret identity, she needs a reason for one; the two generally used that I can think of are
1) Themyscira/Paradise Island is a secret and contains secrets; therefore she needs a secret life so she isn't put in a position where she ends up revealing her home of origin and its arcane knowledge. This one runs counter to the "ambassador" thread so if you use one, you can't use the other. On the other hand, it stops asshat editors and writers from making the Amazons do un-Amazonly things like attack and slaughter the residents of Washington, DC. *grrr*
2) She just needs a normal life where she can have some privacy/time to herself--or where she can gather information low profile. There's some logic to this, although the person you might have the hardest time convincing herself it's important is herself. If you're restarting the story from scratch and doing the "innocent new to this world" angle on the character, however, she might come up with the Diana Prince persona to help learn about life in "Man's World" without drawing attention to herself. That might be the best way to go if you want to do the secret identity thing.
Most importantly, if she does have the secret identity, she must wear hugely ridiculous glasses. This must be her own idea, she is not just copying off Clark Kent.
One thing I liked about JLU was the Bruce/Diana dynamic. There was something, nice, about the embodyment of love trying to show the embodyment of fear* how much more he had to give than he realized.
Agreed. It also explains why Bruce's GRRRR persona never intimidates or gets to Diana. Love conquers fear. :)
I wonder what would happen if Marvel acquired Wonder Woman? She's so built as a character story character, I wonder what would happen if Wonder Woman was written by a Marvel writer and explored the very depth of her character every month.
Marvel would most likely screw it up royally, as they have with every other character story character since they brought Bendis onboard. (Not that it is necessarily Bendis's fault, though he has screwed up plenty of Chars. on his own (Moon Knight, anyone?), but his hiring is a convenient marker for when their multi-layerd chars went to crap.)
That's the sort of thing that throws the nature of other superheroes into question, and turns *their* 'relevance' on it's head. Are any of the DC comic reading fanbase ready for a story in which the hero can not only save kittens from trees, but can also redeem crooks and (using her magic lasso, perhaps) show them a better path, so that they become better people?
I submit for your approval Iroque (also called Indigo-1), a serial murderer turned compassion-ring slinger who enventually no longer needs her ring. (War of light onward GL stories)
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While it's weird and different, how about this take on her?
Aaron Diaz has re-imagined her as the last remnant of the her culture, created as a stature, still a statue and so enduring far longer than her makers.
She wields the aegis, which makes it impossible for her foes to lie while their faces are reflected in its polished surface and dressed like a warrior from ancient Greece.
I'm not a Wonder-Woman-ologist, but I have to say it looks more interesting and unique. Whether you could do as much with this design, or it can still be considered the same character I don't know.
The page has a whole redesigned justice league and he's done the legion of doom, the bat family and the x-men too.