So, I've seen a few Wolverine discussions and builds here and there, and most of them are really great and varied, much like the character himself.
This isn't about Wolverine, however, but about one small aspect about him. You probably now what I'm talking about, given what the name of this thread is, so let's get right to it:
How would you handle it in game? Would it change any stats? Skills? What would it give to the character, in terms of strengths? What in terms of weaknesses? Would it complicate things, or would it be not such a big deal at all?
Also...the claws. How much damage do you think they would do? Also, should they have a fixed static amount, or should they increase in damage as the character gains levels? Normally I'm for static, fixed amounts with weapons, but those weapons you can usually drop and ditch when you 'outgrow' them. And in Pathfinder/D&D, the way I run it in my head, those claws would eventually be useless as the character starts finding Vorpal Greatswords and cosmic boomerangs and all that business. How would you prevent this?
Discuss amongst yourselves.
My question that comes to my mind is does this creature list as undead or a construct? If it were a manufactured body brought to a semblance of life by unlife, what is it?
I could create a new creature type, using skeleton, construct, and special materials for inspiration.
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Adamantium claws are nothing to sneeze at - the hardness-negating property is significant and fits Wolverine pretty well.
I think they should have normal damage based on size, or maybe one category higher (they're pretty big claws), but not change with levels; monsters don't get to do that either. Rather, bonuses to damage will provide a big contribution; that adamantium skeleton probably helps your Strength score too.
@Barnes: Well, it's just metal plating added to an existing skeleton. They go in surgically(I'm sure having a few Wizards on standby would ensure that operations are relatively safe procedures), and basically bond unbreakable metal to your skeleton. I'm not sure if that counts you as a Construct in Pathfinder rules, any more than getting a metal plate added to your head, or getting your leg replaced with a prosthetic leg would.
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Static amount but I would make them enchantable (like a weapon). Note that I consider the original claws to be natural weapons already present in the character (which is the case with Wolverine). If you do not have natural weapons, I would allow for your nails to become adamantine, as lethal unarmed strikes ;-)
Also magical healing would not work on the character because of his part-construct nature. But Mending would not work either because he is not a real Construct.
Regeneration and fast-healing would work though.
This means that you need to be able to heal fast and/or regenerate before you get the metal grafted to your skeleton.
Which is exactly what happened with Wolverine.
And now I understand that they plunged him in an acid vat to negate his regeneration ability long enough to graft the metal :-))
Funny that the humans weren't very humane in what they did to a Mutant.
Gosh, I wonder if that's a metaphor or something...
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So adamantium claws are easy: Give them d4 damage and let him enchant them. I am assuming that he is using them to TWF. Counting them as natural attack could work too.
The skeleton itself is an interesting problem. Having an unbreakable skeleton prevents damage to the bones and other vital organs. It also helps makes it harder to put you down "for good" since mortal wounds are harder to inflict.
In terms of pathfinder, damage to vital organs is modelled by crits and sneak attacks. So I'd give him some amount of fortification (% chance to negate crits and sneak attack) and maybe either toughness or diehard as a bonus feat.
Also: Wolverine should avoid necromancers. Regeneration is foiled by death effects, and what necromancer would not want a adamantium skeleton :)
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I run a mixed genre game my group calls Superpath; it is basically a group of Champions superheroes that got sent into Golarion. I converted Hero System basics into D20 Silver Age Sentinels then into Pathfinder from there. I used the FASERIP system from Marvel to do the same. Here are my notes for Wolverine combat wise, not full stats yet, still a work in progress):
Str 25 (Rage: 33)
Dex 23
Con 30 (Rage: 40)
Int 13
Wis 26
Chr 20
BAB +16
Weapon Focus (Claws), Greater Weapon Focus (Claws) Weapon Spec (Claws), Greater Weapon Spec (Claws) Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, Greater Vital Strike Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Power Attack
Also, would have Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
So here are his claws:
Base 1d8+2 (15-20/x2), P or S, acts as Adamantium for bypassing DR; already considered Keen; Ignores Hardness, Armor 25
Attacks:
Claws +23/+23/+18/+18/+13/+13/+8, 1d8+13 (15-20, x2; 2d8+26) Claws +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3, 1d8+23 (15-20, x2; 2d8+46) using Power Attack
Raging Attacks:
Claws +28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+18/+13, 1d8+17 (15-20, x2; 2d8+34) Claws +23/+23/+18/+18/+13/+13/+8, 1d8+27 (15-20, x2; 2d8+54) using Power Attack
Vital Strike:
Claw +25, 4d8+19 (15-20, x2; 5d8+32)
Claw +20, 4d8+29 (15-20, x2; 5d8+52) using Power Attack
Raging Vital Strike:
Claw +30, 4d8+22 (15-20, x2; 5d8+40)
Claw +25, 4d8+32 (15-20, x2; 5d8+60) using Power Attack
I originally was making his attack bigger (3d8+6 base) but he normally only fights at Excellent damage against normal, which fits the 1d8+2 base damage. When combined with his Vital Strike to get his big damage, it puts him on par with what a Monstrous attack would do (which is the max he can do in the Marvel game; the equivalent of a 5d6 HKA in Hero System after strength).
That is monstrous, Swashbuckler. Thanks for cluing us in.
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I think it'd be okay to give the claws a dual weapon/natural weapon status, like a monk's flurry; that way you can elect to fight with iterative attacks.
As for the skeleton, I think I'd go with DR X/slashing or piercing; basically it protects you (a bit) against bludgeoning damage because your bones can't be broken.
I'd also count the skeleton as providing a bonus to Strength - I'm leaning towards Inherent here, but it could also be Enhancement.
And for the heck of it, it makes your unarmed attacks count as real (lethal) weapons; even a fist-blow is going to hurt when you've got built-in "dire brass knuckles". Not that you care, you have claws, but hey.
Well, it would be nice for certain situations.
And I like everything you added. I think DR/Piercing is the way to go, since it would be a little hard to, say, slash him in two or something.
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I'd say the most "construct-y" you'd get would be the living construct subtype, so 50% from positive energy
Claws, enchantable as a double weapon give bonus feat(s) improved natural weapon, apply to both claw and unarmed strike, allow it to be applied to claw a second time if the character spends the feat.
Give 50% fortification
Give natural armor, go punch someone in the chest now compare to the stomach, harder to hurt them in the chest cause your ribs resist, Adaminite would make this more so, so natural armor lets say 3?
Increeses weight by x1.5
Moderate to large bonus to str, small to moderate bonus to con, small penelty to dex
This thread makes me want to make Wolverine for a game. Le sighe, and such.
Honestly? I'd just treat the skeleton as built in Armor. Not even Natural Armor(Cause his skin is just as fleshy).
Why? Simple.
ACP. Wolverine is shown on several occasions to be limited by his skeleton's weight. Furthermore, when it's removed(magneto ripped it out IIRC), he's shown to be faster and quicker(dodging more efficiently & jumping further). Of course, he's grown accustom to it(armor training?) but that doesn't change the fact it's most similar to heavy armor under pathfinder rules.
So I'd treat it as Adamantium Full Plate Armor, possibly with Fortification & Invulnerable enhancements built in.
As for the claws, they would just be natural attacks for a creature his size. However, the coating would make them similar to the Cat Folk's claw blades, they change it from a natural attack into a Martial Weapon. I'd just make them a re-flavored version of that, but one that can't be disarmed & is made from Adamantium.
This is awesome, I have some notes from a few years ago I'll dig out. I might have something to add to this.
Interesting ideas, Darth Grall. BTW, your name should be Darth Garth. That would be awesome.
Also, some stuff I thought of last night:
Wouldn't an adamantium skeleton make it more difficult for the character to swim, since they're all heavy now?
Also, wouldn't that skeleton make the character more vulnerable to certain elemental attacks? Lightning, since the skeleton would conduct electricity? And extreme heat and cold, since metal can get magma hot or ice ice cold, and either way, having that inside your body would be uncomfortable?
Interesting ideas, Darth Grall. BTW, your name should be Darth Garth. That would be awesome.
Lolz, I may make an alias of that.
Wouldn't an adamantium skeleton make it more difficult for the character to swim, since they're all heavy now?
Again would fall under Armor Check Penalty(ACP). -6 to a swim score would be fairly crippling in most cases.
Also, wouldn't that skeleton make the character more vulnerable to certain elemental attacks? Lightning, since the skeleton would conduct electricity? And extreme heat and cold, since metal can get magma hot or ice ice cold, and either way, having that inside your body would be uncomfortable?
Certainly someone with such a skeleton would always grant the +3 to Shocking Grasp. Heat & Cold not so much, but I imagine certain spells could have that effect.
As for comfort, I think it'd be uncomfortable as hell. It'd be like always in Armor. I imagine, he'd always be exhausted by Pathfinder rules if we treated it as such. Unless it's Comfort armor or something.
If he wasn't used to it, like Wolvie in comics seems to be. Sure, it would be rough for a few levels.
Adamantine claws, 1d6 18-20 x2. Hardness as an adamantine short sword. Enchanted with keen, sundering, and bleeding.
Slash and Piercing damage?
Yes, can't believe I forgot that part.
I would suggest an adamantine tekko-kagi or pair of them. Alternatively, catfolk have special claw weapons (metal claws that go over their natural claws) which can be made of special material.
As for an adamantine skeleton, I would have to forbid it in may campaigns unless it were developed as some sort of skeletal construct. The adamantium skeleton in wolverine does grant him any special bonuses except that his skeletal structure in near indestructible. His healing factor is what makes it useful. As is, the implants would block the marrow in the bone from doing its job. The added weight would slow, all aspects of movement (Marvel simply omits this aspect and never addresses it). Furthermore, with the exception of the skull (adamantine helm) it provides no additional armor bonus.
I think they address it in that Wolverine A, has lived with it for years now, and B, is much stronger and faster than an average person. Like, he's as strong as you can be without being superstrong.
But yeah, for the average adventurer, it would be somewhat unfun.
I can agree to that.
They compensate for his weight I believe. He's like 5'3 and weighs 250. I don't care how beefcake a guy is, 250 lbs does not fit well on a 5'3 frame, period.
I think they address it in that Wolverine A, has lived with it for years now, and B, is much stronger and faster than an average person. Like, he's as strong as you can be without being superstrong.
But yeah, for the average adventurer, it would be somewhat unfun.
He does actually have super-strength, stamina and agility. It's more subtle (i.e. less) than the likes of Hulk, but he does have superhuman strength.
I would treat his claws as adamantine bladed gauntlets (see 3.0 sword and fist) that he can "draw" and "sheathe" both as a free action, while his skeleton would grant him DR 20/piercing, slashing or adamantine, DR 10/piercing or adamantine and DR 5/adamantine. Regular bludgeoning weapons would mostly uselessly hit the surface, as their main strength, breaking bones, is cancelled by the virtually unbreakable bones, while slashing weapons can at least do surface damage and cut into less protected areas, but are also greatly hindered by the bones when it comes to dealing serious damage while piercing weapons can get at the meaty parts with relative ease as they only need a small impact point and easily pass between even ribs.
Do we know if Wolvie had enhanced STR naturally or if it comes from his skeleton (as some posts suggested) ?
Well the STR did come from the skeleton in a way.
The fluff is that his healing factor kept him at the peak of physical strength & dexterity, quickly healing as he goes past his muscles limits and tears. So like how Captain America was "super" strong but really Wolvie's only marginally stronger than most people.
Thing is, think of the strain a metal skeleton would add to your muscular system. Your muscles would tear & grow to compensate for the extra weight. So what ended up happening is Wolvie's muscle density is through the roof to compensate for the skeleton. Also his skeletal frame is unbreakable so even if he actually can't lift something, it won't break him. Lastly, he has a lot of weight behind his punches because of his muscle density & his skeleton enhancing the power behind them.
So again, mostly yes. It's the skeleton's fault in fluff.
Do we know if Wolvie had enhanced STR naturally or if it comes from his skeleton (as some posts suggested) ?
A little of both. His regeneration allows for increased muscle, "Due to his healing factor's constant regenerative qualities, he can push his muscles beyond the limits of the human body without injury", but this really was enhanced by adding about 100 lbs of metal to his bone structure, "This, coupled by the constant demand placed on his muscles by over one hundred pounds of adamantium, grants him some degree of superhuman strength." This is from wikipedia, but shows references to both quotes from official Marvel sources...
There was a thread about a dwarven Wolverine-type character, I'll see if I can find it.