So Rohkar killed a lvl 2 party, The party was a barb with an animal companion (30+hp) a fighter (20+hp) a scorcerer with mage armor and color spray, and a witch with healing prepared, a web bolt prepared, and the healing hex and the evil eye hex.
The party split up a bit after they killed the majority of the raiders, and the barb went upstairs with his animal companion. They opened the door and went in, rohkar invisibly left and went downstairs to animate dead secretly. Long story short Rohkar played the situation very well and cast hold person on the barb when he came near, then he and the zombies felled him the skeletons held up the already injured animal companion, and Rhokar downed the whole party but one who fled. Rohkar was at full health with one zombie still up. The PC who fled was then killed by a random encounter of 6 stirges.
They were supposed to hit this at lvl 1? That is a bit nasty no? 5 zombies and an invisible cleric with hold person prepared?
Doesn't hold person make him visible? Then the other PCs could have attacked
How did he down 3 other PCs with ac 16 and 20 hp?
Zombies man 5 zombies, and a somewhat split party, that and only the fighter, the barb and theanimal companion could do much. Also the zombies consistently hit really hard. He just really had the advantage in terms of placement, nobody except the barb could get close because of the zombies, and he was made helpless.
I see. I remember something similar. Zombies are nasty. I hit one of my PCs for max damage and dropped him.
It was actually a mix of poor tactics (I forgot about his channel and deathwatch) and a bit of generosity for my PCs to get through. I didn't want to kill any PCs that early. However encounter still came.across pretty epic. So much so that the Teb Knotten fight was a huge anti-climax
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It's beginning to look like Rohkar is a ver serious opponent, because a lot of groups seemed to have "trouble" with him - and by trouble, I mean many near TPKs, retreats and close calls. Rather cool, really.
The Teb Knotten fight is still really cool though IMO. You really get to make use of vision and environmental rules.
Sounds to me like there were poor party tactics. I myself pulled a "are you sure you want to do that?" with my adventuring group when they wanted to "tactically split the party to cover both exits." (They then went off to sleep and get spells up... and ended up hitting the crossbow trap when they returned. Quite amusing actually.)
Rokhar is a nasty encounter for level 1 or 2 characters even when you use the suggested tactics. You might consider using Hero Points so the PCs can avoid certain death in some circumstances.
When I ran the Rohkar fight last session, it nearly ended in a TPK as well. The party was relatively small (2nd level witch, 2nd level fighter, 1st level barbarian), but their tactics were sound. Rohkar's channels (and some missed saves) were just too much for them. One character dropped after a couple of rounds, and then they wisely retreated after healing him up.
Rematch is tonight! The barbarian is now 2nd level and a 4th member has joined the party, but Rohkar will be prepared for them, so I think it'll still be a tough battle.
You do realize that in his tactics, Rokhar's use of Channel Energy is used to keep his Zombies healthy... not as an offensive weapon against the party. To be honest, he should have been written as a Rogue 1/Cleric 2, so that his Channel Energy would be much less lethal to 1st level characters.
Those five zombies would have been a speed bump for my party on their way to Rohkar's face. With just two channels to heal his minions, I had a real challenge for the players. He saved his final channel for when his unholy symbol was discovered—it seemed like the "scoundrel" thing to do for his last act.
You do realize that in his tactics, Rokhar's use of Channel Energy is used to keep his Zombies healthy... not as an offensive weapon against the party. To be honest, he should have been written as a Rogue 1/Cleric 2, so that his Channel Energy would be much less lethal to 1st level characters.
I do, but what's a GM to do when there are no uninjured undead when Rohkar's turn comes up in initiative? I mean, I suppose I could have hit them with a Cause Fear (he'd already used Hold Person), but channeling seemed the logical route. My players are smart enough to know when I'm pulling punches, and would honestly prefer I play it straight. The player that went down missed the save and the D6's came up 5 and 6, I think, so there was some bad luck thrown in there, too.
I'm with you on the Rogue level, though - great idea. Wish I'd thought of that before the battle!
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He could have attacked with a weapon instead. Don't forget: he's pretending to be a necromancer. If he uses Channel Energy to harm people, then he just revealed priestly abilities (compared to the Necromancer's "control undead" ability).
To be honest, I had him admitting he was a Priest once he found out that there was a Holy Warrior of the Goddess of Death and Healing in the group. To worshippers of Marashieb (god from my own campaign world), necromancers are as vile as the Undead and should be put down without question. ;) Priest of the God of Murder? Hah! That's small pickings in comparison!
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I'm also not entirely sure what sort of mercy he's going to receive by pretending to be a necromancer. "No, really, I reanimate dead bodies, I don't make new ones." It seems a bit weak an argument, and most PCs I know would be ready to take his head either way. I can see a better plan for him than that, though.
"Alright, you got me. I'm no necromancer, I'm a priest of Norgorber. But hear me out! You don't want me, you want those winter fey. They're the ones that have opened up the portal here. They gave me an ultimatum: serve them, or me and my men would be put to death. I didn't want to work with the inhuman bastards, but what choice did I have, really? But things have changed. You lot can probably take out the moss troll in charge of the gate. With my help, that is. I know where it is. So here's the deal - I help you take down Teb Knotten and the rest of the winter fey, and I walk in exchange. Kill me now, and you'll freeze to death long before you find the winter portal."
Dude. I like that. I like that a lot. Considering my group ended with him being captured? They're still at the lodge. I can do that. Heh heh heh....
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My group was close to a TPK in that lodge fight but managed to pull through... barely. It was freaken epic.
In an uncharacteristic bit of tactical thinking they hit the lodge in the middle of the night when almost everyone was asleep. However, they triggered the alarm then spent several rounds trading arrow fire with the bandits in the windows while everyone else inside donned their armor and got ready, effectively eliminating the surprise.
They got sick of not making progress so the paladin drew her greatsword and ran screaming at the lodge, diving through the window and immediately tearing it up with the bandits. The rogue followed suit and launched himself inside, taking the bandits turned on the paladin in the flank. The others smashed through the door and sh!t got real.
I ran the fight in a series of waves. The bandits were a tough fight in the enclosed space, then the sick bandits staggered out to fight. then the frost skeletons dropped over the ledge from above to take on the party. Just when they thought the fight was over Rohkar raised several of the corpses as zombies. When he set off his channel energy to heal the zombies the paladin spotted his presence and turned on him. Suffice to say, she made quick work of him between her smite and greatsword while everyone else kept the zombies off from her.
It was a crazy fight and a couple of the party members dropped but judicious use of a wand of cure light wounds stove off a TPK, instead creating a furious and bloody brawl. When they brought the lady upstairs she promptly vomited all over herself when she walked into the carnage. Ten-Penny grabbed her treasure when the ruckus broke out, quaffed her potions and slipped out the window and off into the night.
My party was much more successful in the re-match. It was still a lengthy combat, with some memorable action.
This time, I had Rohkar stay invisible most of the combat, and use his channels to heal the undead. It wound up being very effective - there were a number of zombies there were ALOMST destroyed (down to 1 or 2 HP's), and then brought back to full with great rolls on the 2D6 channel. Once he became visible (after using a Hold Person to drop the barbarian), other party members finished off the remaining zombies and got into melee, and it was over from there. The turning point was a Cause Fear save that the fighter made after the barbarian dropped. It could have gotten a little ugly had she fled while the barbarian was held.
As an aside, what did other parties do with the Lodge after killing Rokhar? Try to use it as a temporary base of operations, or try to help repopulate it with replacement Sentinels? Or just ignore it and press onwards?
@ Joshua Goudreau how did your party get a wand of cure light wounds? You can't buy anything more expensive than 500gp in town? Did you waive that, or did they buy a partially used one or something?
My party was much more successful in the re-match. It was still a lengthy combat, with some memorable action.
This time, I had Rohkar stay invisible most of the combat, and use his channels to heal the undead. It wound up being very effective - there were a number of zombies there were ALOMST destroyed (down to 1 or 2 HP's), and then brought back to full with great rolls on the 2D6 channel. Once he became visible (after using a Hold Person to drop the barbarian), other party members finished off the remaining zombies and got into melee, and it was over from there. The turning point was a Cause Fear save that the fighter made after the barbarian dropped. It could have gotten a little ugly had she fled while the barbarian was held.
Awesome! I love hearing about how different everyone's Rohkar fight is. There's just so much flexibility to that entire encounter.
As an aside, what did other parties do with the Lodge after killing Rokhar? Try to use it as a temporary base of operations, or try to help repopulate it with replacement Sentinels? Or just ignore it and press onwards?
I've written the High Sentinels as being all but wiped out in my game. I had a new player join shortly after the Lodge and offered to let him be the last surviving Sentinel but he picked a different backstory.
My players used it as a convenient waypoint when travelling back and forth from Heldren to the deeper areas of the Border Wood. It's roughly a full day's march from Heldren to the Lodge and another full day from the Lodge to the Portal. My players are now firmly on their way to the Pale Tower so the chapter has closed on the Lodge. It will remain empty and closed up as the players left it—a reminder of a bygone age on the fringes of a once-proud empire.
I've written the High Sentinels as being all but wiped out in my game. I had a new player join shortly after the Lodge and offered to let him be the last surviving Sentinel but he picked a different backstory.
Too funny - I offered the "last surviving Sentinel" route for the sorcerer that just joined the party (he accepted, though).
Five and and a half books from now, I'll have to remember the Lodge as a place the PC's can retire to, after saving the world from certain doom.
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Dude. I like that. I like that a lot. Considering my group ended with him being captured? They're still at the lodge. I can do that. Heh heh heh....
You're welcome, Tangent! I'm a huge fan of the alliance of convenience - the PCs just know Rohkar will turn on them, but they can't just say no, either! Hell, depending how easily the battle goes for the party, he might not turn on them. If they (somehow) handily beat Teb and his crew, I can see Rohkar looking to the most lawfully-aligned person and saying, "Hey, I fulfilled my end of the bargain, now you follow through on yours." I don't see him turning on the party again during the fight - the winter fey won't have any sympathy for the turncoat, so he's pot committed to winning this fight or beating feet. Despite his duplicitous nature, I don't see much good coming from betraying the party, even if they have a pyrrhic victory. About the only thing I can see is if the more lawfully aligned members of the party are down, and it's just a weakened Rohkar versus one or two injured and tapped chaotic members. At that point, he could grab them to reopen negotiations. Assuming they agree to let him go (again), he says, "And since I don't especially trust you to keep your word as soon as I let your friend go..." He then casts bleed and high tails it out of there, forcing the classic dilemma - save your friend, or catch the bad guy?
One final thought - a truly sadistic DM would have the Black Rider offer Rohkar the Mantle as well!
Oh, I'm not going to do THAT! I'm already running two GMPCs! (One was going to be kidnapped as part of my previous campaign, but that plot got tossed out when I started up with RoW - not to mention that another player has started a relationship with her). It's to the point that I'm very strongly tempted, next AP, not to run a GMPC at all. (That, and we've four players now for each campaign I'm running. I don't need to pad the groups any longer.)
That said, if I wasn't running a pair of GMPCs or if they got killed off, then I could very well do that to the group. It'd cause some conflict seeing one of the PCs exists to curbstomp bandits and that's his big gripe with Rohkar; I'm not sure on the wizard/cleric, even if his priestly theme is being a guardian who's into avenging the weak.
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@ Joshua Goudreau how did your party get a wand of cure light wounds? You can't buy anything more expensive than 500gp in town? Did you waive that, or did they buy a partially used one or something?
The party was six players but two dropped out after the first session taking the cleric and the witch with them (and thus all the healing) so I gave them a wand as part of the caravan treasure to get them by until the paladin gets lay on hands, which she just received.
Okay, Rohkar getting caught up in the mantle would be great. He could even be the party's first hint that the mantle came with a catch - he might immediately strike out on his own once in Irrisen, or stay behind in Taldor, only to come seeking the party two to three days later, sullenly informing the party that they have his aid to the bitter end.
Now, I fully expect my own PCs to kill his ass, but man.
Now, the necromancer thing is weird, but if I remember right a follower of Father Skinsaw has an obligation to keep his faith secret from nonbelievers. I'd assume he's subtly guiding his bandits to Father Skinsaw, but is doing the necromancer schtick because (1) he can and (2) necromancers are scary but don't necessary set off the "WTF, this dude's bonkers" alarm like openly worshiping the god of murder would.
Another way to put it - I suspect most criminal gangs would still go "WTF, what's wrong with that guy" if one of their guys came out and said "Yeah, I'm a Satanist, and I'd like to perform a human sacrifice.* You mind lending a hand?"
* Anton Lavey's Satanic Bible essentially forbids human sacrifice, but hey, heretics =P