Party with Rogue, Ranger, Sorcerer, Fighter - boosting rogue?

[carn]

Since rogue is rather weak and the rogue player isnt optimizer anyway, i was thinking about boosting rogue, also because in part his scout role will be in competetion from the ranger.
Just have no good idea what is enough and what is too much.

So question, how much has the rogue class to be boosted to make it on par with other?

I had 4 options in mind, all rather simple, which is preferable:

1.rogue gets full bab and d10

2.rogue gets every 4th level a bonus rogue talent (for total of 5 till lev 20), can select all talents with x uses/time twice for double uses, can select all talents "selectable only once" twice (e.g. combat trick), can apply two rogue talents with * to each sneak attack

3. same as 2, except every 3rd level bonus talent, can select limited use or only once selectable talents 3 times and apply 3 talents with * to sneak

4. same as 2 except every 2nd level bonus talent, can select limited use or only once selectable talents 4 times and apply 4 talents with * to sneak

[Da'ath]

You'll find there are enough opinions on how the rogue should be fixed you'll drown in them. Of the option you present, #1 is probably the best option without causing any unforseen consequences later on. It is also the most straightforward.

An option I've been experimenting with (and we've been pretty happy with) was adding a couple gunslinger mechanics to the rogue (grit to guile pool), and improving trapfinding. You can find a basic rundown of what we've used here.

[carn]

I do not like the solution you linked, because it changes the stat requirements of a rogue.

And i feel uneasy with option 1, because its worth about 11 feats (+5 to hit meele weapon = 5 * weapon focus, d8->d10 = toughness, +5 to hit ranged weapon = 5 * weapon focus) and actually even more, because nobody can select 5 times weapon focus.

Option 2 is worth about 5 feats, strengthens the rogue flair (simply due to more stupid rogue talents) and strengthens sneak. Option 4 would probably be close in power to optin 1.

[Lamontius]

it would be better to actually post more about the builds and play styles of the four players, as well as the setting(s) they might be playing in, so that this is not throwing darts in a pitch black room that does not necessarily even have a dartboard in it

[DrDeth]

Rogue isn’t really all that weak. It’s more that other classes can now fill the skill-monkey niche.

But yes, if the rogue player isn’t good at optimizing and the others are, then some bonuses can be tossed his way.

Without changing the rules, you can simply do a few loot drops which have cool rogue stuff. Remember, WBL is a guideline, and you can vary from that a bit.

Also simple- The rogue's “Thieves’ guild” comes to him and gives him (and the party) a quest. They get a bag of gold, he gets a magic Toughness tattoo also. Or a bonus level, even. Being one level higher that the rest should do it.

Lamontius is right.

[Thomas Long 175]

I'd actually replace his trap finding with the archaeologist bard's clever explorer, which is in essence trapfinding 2.0.

Archaeologist Bard

Furthermore, if you wish to make him better in combat, I actually crunched the numbers on sneak attack as it stands versus a simple +1 to attack and damage at every odd level under sneak attack conditions and with two weapon fighting you ended up over 50% DPR higher.

[Lincoln Hills]

If you don't think the rest of the group will think it favoritism, you can arrange for him to catch word of a magical item with a restriction (see Cursed Items: in this case, the bearer must be a member of the Rogue class.) That's pretty blatant, though. You might wait a while and see if the rogue player finds a way to make his scout niche compatible with that of the ranger. For instance, if (at least) another player and the rogue take the Outflank feat from APG, his sneak attacks are considerably more likely to land.