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Can you concentrate to cast defensively to avoid provoking an AoO when using a spell-like ability? If so, how do you determine the spell level to use in determining the DC?
I'm kinda wondering how the "bad touch" clerics or similar types who use spell-like melee touch attacks can cast them without provoking. I know one option is to cast from a distance, then move closer, then touch the enemy, so the casting takes place before you're in range of the enemy. But what if it's a melee character who stands there and does this stuff round after round, so they can't move around that way to avoid the AoO? For instance, a melee cleric with melee domain abilities that are spell-like.
Yes, you can concentrate to cast defensively when using SLA's. For those SLA's that are equal to a spell, you simply use that spell's level (using the sorcerer/wizard level if possible, and defaulting in order to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, or ranger).
If the SLA isn't equal to a spell, it will often mention an equivalent spell level (as a devil's summon ability does).
For class-based SLAs that aren't equal to a spell, the equivalent spell level is the highest level of spell you could cast at the time you gained access to the SLA.
So, if you gain a cleric SLA at cleric level 1, the equivalent spell level will be 1 (as the highest level of spell you can cast is 1st level). If you gain another one at cleric level 8, the new one will have an equivalent spell level of 4 (as the highest level of you spell you can now cast is 4th level).
In the Combat chapter:
"Using a Spell-Like Ability on the Defensive: You may attempt to use a spell-like ability on the defensive, just as with casting a spell. If the concentration check (DC 15 + double the spell's level) fails, you can't use the ability, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability."
So I'm hoping the ability you're trying to use defensively includes a spell reference? If not, the DM should try to figure out the spell reference.
If not, this might help, from the Magic chapter:
"If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability’s effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained."
And if that isn't applicable, or is confusing, maybe you can post an example of an ability that is confusing you?
Yes you can cast defensively, and that is what a melee based cleric would have to do.
If the SLA duplicates an existing spell then you look up the spell to determine the level. If the SLA is unique then you go by when it gets the SLA.
As an example if you get the SLA at level 3 when a cleric can normally cast a 2nd level spell then the SLA is a 2nd level SLA.
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.
So, if you gain a cleric SLA at cleric level 1, the equivalent spell level will be 1 (as the highest level of spell you can cast is 1st level). If you gain another one at cleric level 8, the new one will have an equivalent spell level of 4 (as the highest level of you spell you can now cast is 4th level).
I think I prefer this reading of it, but I'm not sure that's what the RAW really says.
"If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability’s effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained."
It doesn't say "the ability’s effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast when he gains the ability". I just says highest-level class spell he can cast.
So, by RAW, a 20th level cleric can cast 9th level spells. If he wants to use a domain power he got at first level, his DC to use On The Defensive is 15 + 9x2 = 33 because the RAW says he calculates it using the highest level cleric spell he can cast.
On the positive side, this roll shouldn't be too hard for him. On the negative side, very few of those abilities scale in any meaningful way, so it's hard to justify why it's harder for a 20th level cleric to concentrate on them than it used to be for that same cleric when he was level 1. Other than a gamist mechanic to keep niche abilities from becoming overpowered, I don't see any reason for the DC to scale while the abilities generally don't.
Still, there's RAW, and there's houserules, and even though the RAW on SLA's Effective Spell Levels doesn't make much sense in most cases, it seems to be fairly clear here, unless I've missed an errata or FAQ somewhere.
So, if you gain a cleric SLA at cleric level 1, the equivalent spell level will be 1 (as the highest level of spell you can cast is 1st level). If you gain another one at cleric level 8, the new one will have an equivalent spell level of 4 (as the highest level of you spell you can now cast is 4th level).I think I prefer this reading of it, but I'm not sure that's what the RAW really says.
"If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability’s effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained."
It doesn't say "the ability’s effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast when he gains the ability". I just says highest-level class spell he can cast.
You may be right about the strict RAW, but there is a FAQ ruling :)
Cleric domains, sorcerer bloodlines, wizard schools, and certain other class features give spell-like abilities that aren't based on spells. What's the effective spell level for these abilities?
The effective spell level for these spell-like abilities is equal to the highest-level spell that a character of that class could normally cast at the level the ability is gained.
For example, a 1st-level elemental bloodline sorcerer has elemental ray as a spell-like ability. Because a sorcerer 1's highest-level spell available is 1st, that spell-like ability counts as a 1st-level spell. A 9th-level elemental bloodline sorcerer has elemental blast as a spell-like ability. Because a sorcerer 9's highest-level spell available is 4th, that spell-like ability counts as a 4th-level spell.
—Sean K Reynolds, 07/08/11
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Ahh, ok. Thanks. I was looking in the wrong place in the Core Rulebook. The chapter on magic defines SLAs but doesn't mention the casting defensively for them.
I find it odd that the book treats SLAs as if they're almost always the equivalent of a spell, and it's only rare exceptions that aren't. Right there in the Core Rulebook, just about every cleric domain, wizard school, and sorcerer bloodline has at least one SLA that isn't the equivalent of a spell.
So the moral of the story is that Combat Casting and Focused Mind are absolutely essential right from level 1 for a "bad touch" cleric.
Edit: ninja'd by that last post, so modified mine
Ahh, ok. Thanks. I was looking in the wrong place in the Core Rulebook. The chapter on magic defines SLAs but doesn't mention the casting defensively for them. And I agree that the level thing seems really odd, to be based on the highest level spell they can cast so they all keep getting harder to concentrate on with level.
It doesn't get harder with level. If you gain a cleric SLA at 1st level, it will always be equivalent to a 1st level spell, no matter how many cleric levels you later gain.
Ahh, nice, a FAQ.
It gets so tedious to have to read 8 sections of 5 books and still consult a FAQ just to know the ramifications of one rule...
I think I'm going over to that other thread and cast my vote in favor of a Pathfinder 2.0, if only for this reason. At least then it will be a few more years before that version has its own pile of multiple sources to divine one rule.
Still, it's nice to have a FAQ.
I agree, the rule organization is my biggest gripe with Pathfinder. Just about everything else I can deal with, house rule, etc. But this 'finding all elements to a rule in 5 different places' bit is a pain.
- Gauss