| Chemlak |
Just cast them better.
Edit: spells per day and spells known are governed by class level, while caster level determines the effects of particular spells and how good you are at overcoming spell resistance (and a few other things).
| Hendelbolaf |
Please remember that this will only help a multi-class caster or one where your caster level is less than your total character level or hit dice.
So, a Wizard 4 will gain no benefit from it and cast all his spells as a 4th level caster. However, a Wizard 2/Rogue2 will gain a benefit from it and will cast his spells as a 4th level caster as well. A Ranger 4 will also gain a benefit from it and will cast as a 3rd level caster instead of a 1st level caster.
This is only an increase in caster level so it affects range, duration, dice of damage, etc. Basically anything that is affected by caster level is increased, but it does not get you more spells or slots.
Yure
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I was asking in regards and to magical knack and class spells not spell like abilities. Magical knack is for multi classing characters I get that. My confusion comes into understanding caster level itself. Everywhere I have looked it doesn't specify that spells known and slots per day are class level based. However I have seen one or two references say that in order to cast a certain spell that character has to have an x amount of caster level.
I am on my phone right now and get post reference but if anybody has more information or insight on this I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
| wraithstrike |
I was asking in regards and to magical knack and class spells not spell like abilities. Magical knack is for multi classing characters I get that. My confusion comes into understanding caster level itself. Everywhere I have looked it doesn't specify that spells known and slots per day are class level based. However I have seen one or two references say that in order to cast a certain spell that character has to have an x amount of caster level.
I am on my phone right now and get post reference but if anybody has more information or insight on this I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
Class features are only advanced by levels in that class unless otherwise stated.
It just so happens that if you have a spellcasting class that those levels also count as CL's, but CL's are not going to determine your levels in a spellcasting class.
Those references you see are referring to specific classes. That is why when you look up a spell it has the class name beside it. Your actual class, not CL is what determines which spells you can cast. You can have a CL of 1000, but without specific class levels you are not going to cast any spells(I am not referring to SLA's).
| wraithstrike |
Example:
Spells: A wizard casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list presented in Spell Lists. A wizard must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard's spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard's Intelligence modifier.
A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.
Note that this never references "caster level", but it references a table which is going off of the actual wizard level.
Other classes have similar verbage. When we talk on the boards certain things are assumed to be understood so we shortcut it with language such as "CL" at times, but everyone basically knows the intent.
Yure
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I understand that class levels is what gives you class abilities. But where does it say class levels gives you another caster "bracket". However caster level seems to imply it is meant to deal with the spell aspect of the class. In the magical knack trait it says that you pick a class and you gain two caster levels for that class. I am just trying to find where it says a level in "specific" class gives you a certain amount of spells. As I understand it a level in a spell casting class gives you a caster level which in turn opens up more spells yo use.
| Jeraa |
Caster Level
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the DC of the check).
Absolutely nothing about giving you more spells. Just greater effects for the spells you can already cast.
LazarX
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I understand that class levels is what gives you class abilities. But where does it say class levels gives you another caster "bracket". However caster level seems to imply it is meant to deal with the spell aspect of the class. In the magical knack trait it says that you pick a class and you gain two caster levels for that class. I am just trying to find where it says a level in "specific" class gives you a certain amount of spells. As I understand it a level in a spell casting class gives you a caster level which in turn opens up more spells yo use.
And your understanding is completely and utterly wrong. Your spell casting class gives you a spells per day list and access to levels of spells as per the spell progression tree for your class. That you gain caster levels for determination of spell variables based on caster level is simply a collateral effect.
If you are looking for some form of rules interpretation that will give you spell slots, spells know, etc. from the magical knack trait alone, you're not going to find one.
| Jeraa |
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A wizard's level limits the number of spells he can prepare and cast. His high Intelligence score might allow him to prepare a few extra spells. He can prepare the same spell more than once, but each preparation counts as one spell toward his daily limit. To prepare a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level.
When the rules just say "level" it is understood to mean class level.
The entry for sorcerers and bard clearly spell out it is class level, not caster level.
Sorcerers and bards cast arcane spells, but they do not use spellbooks or prepare spells. Their class level limits the number of spells she can cast (see these class descriptions). Her high Charisma score might allow her to cast a few extra spells. A member of either class must have a Charisma score of at least 10 + the spell's level to cast the spell.
Dafydd
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You seem to be trying to tie caster level to spells. However, your caster level has no effect on how many spells you have, only on how powerful the spells are.
For where you get X class level = Y spells, you look at the table in each class's description. Same for spells known, there is a table that tells you based on class level.
Basically, your understanding is adding a step. It goes "A level in a spell casting class opens up more spells to use AND a caster level to improve your spells."
| wraithstrike |
As I understand it a level in a spell casting class gives you a caster level which in turn opens up more spells yo use.
No the actual class gives you the spells and the class levels also grant caster levels. However CL's do not count as levels in the class which is what determines how many spells you get.
That is why Mystic Theurge instead of saying "I give you caster levels" actually says it gives you levels in the spell casting class. That is because the class, not the CL's are would grant you the spells. Otherwise your CL would go up, but you would not get any additional spells per day.
Yure
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Thanks Jeraa. That is more in line with what I was looking for. I swear I read that paragraph one or two times before but I somehow I was misreading it. The second qoute about sorcerers was exactly what I was looking for (but for oracles). I just wanted something to show in writing that class level was correlated to the amount of spells known and castable per day as opposed to caster level.
Truly you are a great player, DM, and an asset to the paizo community. If I could give you positive reputation for answering a question with the best possible answer, I would. :-)
| Shadow-Lord |
Let's say there is a level 22 character. Inquisitor 20/Cleric 2. Would their Caster Level be 22 or not? Would Magical Knack Trait help? If so, what would be their Caster Level. Me and my friends are playing a very long campaign where we multiclass after level 20. Also, how would they go about Domains? There are plans to multiclass into Saint afterwards.
| wraithstrike |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's say there is a level 22 character. Inquisitor 20/Cleric 2. Would their Caster Level be 22 or not? Would Magical Knack Trait help? If so, what would be their Caster Level. Me and my friends are playing a very long campaign where we multiclass after level 20. Also, how would they go about Domains? There are plans to multiclass into Saint afterwards.
They would have different caster levels for each class. As an example if they had to overcome spell resistance while casting a cleric spell they would use 2 as the caster level. If they cast an inquisitor spell they would use a caster level of 20.
With Magical Knack you have to choose a class to apply it to. You could use it to count have a CL for 24 as an inquisitor or to have a CL of 4 as a cleric.
However if you plan to go Inquisitor 20/Cleric 2 I would not waste it on the cleric. He is not going to overcome SR at that level. It is better used on the Inquisitor.