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I have a some battles coming up where the villains will be using Globe of Invulnerability. I am anticipating certain scenarios arising and I would like to talk about the associated RAW (as well as people's opinions on the RAI).
Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.
If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it.
Let's assume a wizard has False Life precast, wins initiative, and throws up a globe of invulnerability in the first round.
Questions:
1) Let's say the party bard comes into the encounter with Mirror Image and Displacement running, are these effects suppressed when the Bard approaches with 10 ft. of the wizard? i.e. Does the "spells already in effect" clause apply only to spells within the globe when it is cast?
2) What if the wizard leaves the area of his globe of invulnerability and then returns, is his False Life suppressed when he reenters the globe?
3) Can the Wizard benefit from a Potion of Cure Serious Wounds while inside his globe of invulnerability?
4) Could a wizard inside the globe (but not in the center) cast Vampiric Touch on himself and touch someone in an adjacent square outside the globe?
1) I would say that the bard is fine; I see nothing about "spells already in effect" being limited by location.
2) Same answer.
3) A potion is an item, so it would not be affected (the wizard can benefit).
4) You don't cast Vampiric Touch on yourself; you cast it on a target (as a touch spell). If the target is outside the globe, it would be affected.
Based on what I know of the spell, here's my best answers...
1) If the bard enters the Globe, yes. 'Spells already in effect' means spells that were running within the area when the Globe of Invulnerability was cast in that zone.
2) I would say no. The 'you can leave and return to the Globe without penalty' bit from the spell description implies that the caster in this case is somehow attuned to the Globe, so his False Life isn't disrupted by it.
3) I would say yes, as potions aren't even spell-completion or spell-trigger items, they simply give you an effect when you consume them.
4) I believe so. Note that it says 'Any type of spell, however, can be cast through or out of the magical globe'. That seems to say that, as long as you're the one in the Globe, you can have your own spells leave the area and affect others.
For purposes of other such questions, think of Globe of Invulnerability as being attuned to the caster and all spells currently affecting him. It's meant only to suppress (not dispel) any OTHER spells or spell-like effects.
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@Orfamay
3) The spells says "Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items." Are you thinking that a Cure Serious from a potion doesn't qualify. It seems like a spell-like effect to me.
4) Good point on Vampiric Touch; bad example on my part. How about Burning Gaze? Could the wizard cast Burning Gaze on himself and then Target people outside the globe?
@Cerberus
3) See above. Does an effect from a potion count as a "Spell-like effect?"
Follow up question on the "leave and return without penalty." Could a wizard leave the globe, cast Mage Armor on himself, and then return to Globe without penalty (i.e. keeping his Mage Armor).
Honestly, I would really like the Globe to be attuned to the wizard so he can cast spells on himself inside, but RAW don't seem to support this.
@Cerberus3) See above. Does an effect from a potion count as a "Spell-like effect?"
Good question, it may need to be clarified in an FAQ. From a GM's perspective, I'd allow it for two reasons. One, it doesn't seem overpowered at all. Two, and this is the important one, the way a potion works is that the magic is already there in the liquid itself, kind of sitting in idle mode. When the wizard casts Globe of Invulnerability in his area, the spell could be considered to be already 'cast', so to speak. By drinking the potion, he's simply giving this idling spell a target. It's a similar concept to how you can hold the charge from a melee touch spell on your character until you decide to walk up and swat someone with it.
Follow up question on the "leave and return without penalty." Could a wizard leave the globe, cast Mage Armor on himself, and then return to Globe without penalty (i.e. keeping his Mage Armor).
Honestly, I would really like the Globe to be attuned to the wizard so he can cast spells on himself inside, but RAW don't seem to support this.
Based on RAW, the Mage Armor seems like it would be suppressed. It's the way I would run it as a GM, anyways. Abjuration effects, even if they're somehow 'attuned' to you, aren't necessarily 100% working in your favor at all times.
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Yeah, I agree about the Mage Armor probably not working.
What I mostly want to hear though, is does it cancel out preexisting buffs on people moving up to fight the wizard? It looks like I got mixed answers on that one. I think RAI is that the clause about not affecting spells already in effect only applies to spell inside the globe at the time of casting, but Orfamay is right that there isn't any RAW about this limitation.
How the heck do you leave the globe if is an emanation centered on you?
It is stationary once cast.
1) The bards buffs remain active.
2) The wizard's false life remains active.
3) Sure, why not ?
4) Invalid target. However, since the caster is inside the sphere and the target (not the caster, but the actual target) is outside, it works because "Any type of spell, however, can be cast through or out of the magical globe."
Here's how I view it. The sphere prevents magic from functioning when the caster and the target of the spell (or the area affected by the spell when it has no single target) are on the outside and the target is on the inside (and the spell is not high level).
Caster outside the sphere and target outside the sphere ? Works just fine (but any effects do not reach into the sphere).
Caster inside the sphere and target inside the sphere ? Works just fine.
Caster outside the sphere and target inside ? Sorry, blocked.
Caster inside the sphere and target outside ? Works just fine.
A fireball targeted at a location outside the sphere by a caster outside the sphere functions, but the effect of the fireball does not reach into the sphere. An Evar... uh BLACK tentacles cast to include the area of the sphere functions, but no tentacles reach into the sphere. Grease, etc.
Where I'm not completely clear is buffs cast after the globe is up. Obviously they function outside the globe, but do they function when the recipient then passes through the globe ? I want to say that they're not affected, at least by RAI. I think the bit about "Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled." is to cover cases like Light/Darkness spells where the spell effect is mostly harmless, since light obviously can enter/leave the sphere (or else you wouldn't be able to see in/out).
Whut? the entry of the area is exactly the same of antimagic field. And i'm pretty sure everyone universally agreed that the field moves with you. After all, is an emanation.
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1)[/b] Let's say the party bard comes into the encounter with Mirror Image and Displacement running, are these effects suppressed when the Bard approaches with 10 ft. of the wizard? i.e. Does the "spells already in effect" clause apply only to spells within the globe when it is cast?
The globe looks at the "timestamp" of other spells to see if they were cast before the globe was cast. If so, they're not affected by the globe. So the bard is fine.
2) What if the wizard leaves the area of his globe of invulnerability and then returns, is his False Life suppressed when he reenters the globe?
There's no mention that the "already in effect when the globe is cast" works any different for the caster than it does for anyone else. So yeah, the wizard is also fine.
3) Can the Wizard benefit from a Potion of Cure Serious Wounds while inside his globe of invulnerability?
I think so, yes. Potions are "like a spell cast upon the imbiber", but they're not actually truly spells, and they were created prior to the casting of the globe (one would assume...).
If you look at the four ways you can activate a magic item (Spell Completion, Spell Trigger, Command Word, Use Activated), potions fall in the last category. I'm pretty sure the globe will block Spell Completion items (scrolls mostly), and I think it'll also block Spell Trigger items, although I'm not a 100% certain. Command Word items aren't necessarily spell-like-ish abilities, so I don't think the globe blocks them.
4) Could a wizard inside the globe (but not in the center) cast Vampiric Touch on himself and touch someone in an adjacent square outside the globe?
Yes; this is a case of fine wording. The Globe blocks three things:
- effects- targets
- area of effect
in so far as they happen inside the Globe. Those three things are (possible) parameters of spells; every spell has one or more of them.
So we look at VT. VT lists the enemy touched as the target. The enemy isn't in to Globe, so fine, he gets damaged.
VT doesn't list the temporary hit points as an Effect parameter, or the caster as a Target, so the caster isn't excluded from receiving benefits either.
It's a bit weird, but there you are.
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In closing, I think it's important to notice that the spell doesn't really distinguish between the caster and anyone else. It starts out on the same spot as the caster, but remains stationary. It hinders you in the same ways as anyone else; no more, no less.
The globe looks at the "timestamp" of other spells to see if they were cast before the globe was cast. If so, they're not affected by the globe. So the bard is fine.
Is there a precedent for that timestamp concept? Because that's the part I have trouble with, partially for concerns of how it would work on Permanencied effects which don't have a time stamp anymore. More importantly, though, it seems to go against the feel of the spell itself. The core concept is that the globe creates a kind of 'No Fly Zone' for spells level 1 through 4. Why would the globe care about things outside of its area of emanation? Without the "nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast" bit, the wizard's False Life he had up when he cast the globe would go away. The 11 words I quoted from the spell seem to be there only to indicate he doesn't screw himself over with losing his defensive spells, otherwise his bard friend's spells would fall under the first sentence, namely "excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower"
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The part "spells already in effect when the globe is cast" is vital to keep the globe fair. Otherwise you could use it to walk up to an enemy and strip away all his buffs.
I'm not sure what kind of precedent you're looking for? It says what it does in the spell description. Permanency doesn't change timestamps at all; those spells are certainly already in effect when GoI is cast.
Yeah, I agree about the Mage Armor probably not working.
What I mostly want to hear though, is does it cancel out preexisting buffs on people moving up to fight the wizard? It looks like I got mixed answers on that one. I think RAI is that the clause about not affecting spells already in effect only applies to spell inside the globe at the time of casting, but Orfamay is right that there isn't any RAW about this limitation.
If a creature has buffs of 4th level or lower and then enters a globe, those buffs would be suppressed. The spell has an area, the spells text details what happens in that area, as far as the spell is concerned anything outside its area doesn't exist. The bard is outside the area, the spell doesn't have any bearing on them, it doesn't concern itself with anything outside its area until the moment it enters its area.
So:
1) The bards mirror image would be suppressed once they enter the Globe if they started off outside of it when it was cast.
2) The wizard is ok, they were inside the globe when it was cast so the False Life is accounted for by the wording of the globe.
3) The potion should be able to be used, spells can be cast through (meaning inside) or out of the globe. The Globe isn't an antimagic field, it doesn't block LoS or LoE, it just prevents certain 'external' effects from being manifested within its area.
4) Yes, again, this isn't an AMF. You can cast spells within the globe then make a touch attack out of it. However if you were outside the globe and had a held charge then attempted to attack into the globe you'd have a problem. The spell suppresses external magical effects but allows for effects to pass out of the globe.
The part "spells already in effect when the globe is cast" is vital to keep the globe fair. Otherwise you could use it to walk up to an enemy and strip away all his buffs.
I'm not sure what kind of precedent you're looking for? It says what it does in the spell description. Permanency doesn't change timestamps at all; those spells are certainly already in effect when GoI is cast.
Except that the globe doesn't move with you, so that concern is moot. Read the spell description again: "You can leave and return to the globe without penalty." How does the inclusion of that sentence make any sense if the globe moved with you as an Anti-Magic Field does?
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What I meant was that you could move up to an enemy, cast the GoI and strip buffs.
GoI doesn't move with you; AMF has a specific line that says that it does move with you, GoI doesn't have that line.
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Anyway, I disagree with Skylancer. Enemies/allies who move into the GoI do not see their buffs stripped (nor curses lifted).
Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast.
Any spell that's already in effect when the globe is cast is totally not affected in any way.
If it were different, that would open up all kinds of shenanigans, like moving into the GoI if you get cursed, to suppress the curse.
What I meant was that you could move up to an enemy, cast the GoI and strip buffs.
GoI doesn't move with you; AMF has a specific line that says that it does move with you, GoI doesn't have that line.
I'm not sure I understand the rationale here. There's nothing in the spell description that describes it differentiating between buffs on the caster and other targets within the area of effect when the globe is cast. Under your interpretation, by the rules it would strip all buffs from the CASTER as well, which would violate the part about spells currently in effect not being affected.
Anyway, I disagree with Skylancer. Enemies/allies who move into the GoI do not see their buffs stripped (nor curses lifted).
Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast.Any spell that's already in effect when the globe is cast is totally not affected in any way.
If it were different, that would open up all kinds of shenanigans, like moving into the GoI if you get cursed, to suppress the curse.
What's wrong with it affecting curses that way? Seeing as how GoI only lasts for 1 round per level and Bestow Curse and many similar effects are permanent, this hardly seems overpowered when it affects all allied and enemy buffs and debuffs equally. Besides, the globe doesn't dispel the debuff, it'd only be suppressed for a time along with that ally's other 1-4 level buffs.
Anyways, the wording seems just ambiguous enough that we could do this all day and not be on the same page without a developer FAQ to set things straight. So, agree to disagree.
Anyway, I disagree with Skylancer. Enemies/allies who move into the GoI do not see their buffs stripped (nor curses lifted).
Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast.Any spell that's already in effect when the globe is cast is totally not affected in any way.
If it were different, that would open up all kinds of shenanigans, like moving into the GoI if you get cursed, to suppress the curse.
If the globe were an omnipotent magical intelligence who could read timestamps on other magic effects, I suppose I could back your opinion on the subject.
The spell gives no such description or abilities in the write up. It just tells us what happens in its area. I'll agree to disagree.
If the globe were an omnipotent magical intelligence who could read timestamps on other magic effects, I suppose I could back your opinion on the subject.
It is sufficiently advanced technology. Reading timestamps is easy for it.
Skylancer: the globe "just knows". The game rules plainly states it doesn't affect spells already in effect, in precisely the same way it doesn't affect 4+ level spells. How it knows is a mystery, but it does know, because that's what the spell description says.
In regards to the area affected by the spell? Absolutely.
Anything outside the area of effect of the spell? Not so much.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
If the globe were an omnipotent magical intelligence who could read timestamps on other magic effects, I suppose I could back your opinion on the subject.It is sufficiently advanced technology. Reading timestamps is easy for it.
I suppose the fact that 'timestamps' don't exist as either a game mechanic or in game object is a shame then.
But enough witty banter, FAQ'd for the masses.