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So, I'm thinking of rolling up a Magus as I'm very intrigued by them. However it seems like they have too many drawbacks before level 3-ish. I'm not exactly sure how combat would work with them either. Do you still draw attacks of opportunities when casting within AOO range? Are you always attacking with a -2 penalty? Basically I'm thinking of making one starting at level 1 and they just seem as though they'd be somewhat useless for a few levels. Please tell me that I am, and how I am, wrong.
If anyone is willing to, could you walk me through what a couple rounds of combat would look like playing as a magus at level 1 using them to their strongest potential?
Also, what is the consensus on the archetypes for a Magus?
Thanks in advance.
A lot of classes that aren't two handing with Power Attack are kinda lackluster at level 1; don't let that hold you back.
When casting in AoO range you have to cast defensively or eat the AoO. It can be hard early on, but eventually it becomes a joke. You can cast, 5 foot step, and then go through your attack routine using Spell Combat iirc.
If you aren't necessarily playing strict RAW, I'd consider asking your DM if you could take Combat Casting and maybe trade it out for something else at a later level.
If you use Spell Combat your weapon attack and your spell's to hit roll (if it has one) both take a -2. Spell Strike really is the big draw to the class and that comes at 2nd level. With that you can get your regular weapon attack and then deliver a touch spell, normally Shocking Grasp, through a weapon attack, so you essentially get two weapon strikes plus Shocking Grasp damage. Also note that your spells share the weapon crit modifier, so with an 18-20 and eventually keen weapon your Shocking Grasp will be doing double damage 30% of the time.
When it comes to Archetypes, I think straight Magus is best. Spell Recall is a great ability as it lets you Shocking Grasp all day. A lot of people like Kensai, but I don't see the draw personally. Hexcrafter is also popular; lose Spell Recall but get the ability to use Witch Hexes. There is also Bladebound which gives you a scaling intelligent weapon and stacks with all Archetypes, but the issue with that is that you have a smaller Arcana Pool.
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First things first;
1. AoO's, you only provoke if you don't successfully cast defensively while in melee range. this can be difficult at low levels but simple positioning tends to resolve that nicely (Stand 5 feet away, cast and then 5ft step and attack usually)
2. You only get the -2 when you are using spellcombat which you don't need to do every round. If you do use it make sure to enhance your weapon to mitigate most of that penalty.
In general low level play is exactly like playing a wizard, pick your spells well and be frugal on using them. The main difference is instead of plinking with your crossbow most of the time you are 2-hding your sword instead.
Of the Archetypes you'll get conflicting opinions but roughly Hexcrafter is awesome and the rest tend to be less so (except for Myrmidarch which just plain $uxs)
1. AoO's, you only provoke if you don't successfully cast defensively while in melee range.
I thought that's how it was for a long time and maybe it was that way in 3.5, but if you fail to cast defensively you lose the spell as opposed to just provoking as normal. Link
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Of the Archetypes you'll get conflicting opinions but roughly Hexcrafter is awesome and the rest tend to be less so (except for Myrmidarch which just plain $uxs)
Bladebound Kensai performs well, but has a very different play style.
I thought that's how it was for a long time and maybe it was that way in 3.5, but if you fail to cast defensively you lose the spell as opposed to just provoking as normal. Link
1. AoO's, you only provoke if you don't successfully cast defensively while in melee range.
If your spamming arcane mark, all it means is you lose 1 of your attacks for the round. Try to set yourself up for the 5' step if your planning on using your shocking grasp.
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Thanks for the replies so far. I'm still a bit confused as to how an actual round of combat would look for a Magus using spellcombat at level 1.
I'm planning on making this character for PFS, so I must go under the assumption that it will be RAW interpretations.
2. You only get the -2 when you are using spellcombat which you don't need to do every round. If you do use it make sure to enhance your weapon to mitigate most of that penalty.
Can you go into detail for how to enhance your weapon in early levels?
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I thought that's how it was for a long time and maybe it was that way in 3.5, but if you fail to cast defensively you lose the spell as opposed to just provoking as normal. Link
1. AoO's, you only provoke if you don't successfully cast defensively while in melee range.
I USED to believe as you do but I'm not so sure of that anymore.
If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a concentration check (DC 15 + double the level of the spell you're casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
There is nothing in the entry that says you don't also provoke the AoO as well. All it says is you don't provoke if you succeed and that you loose the spell if you fail. Without anything in the language saying that you lose the spell instead of provoking you could easily suffer both.
I see your point; I have no idea if you'd suffer both ill effects. I thought you were saying that if you failed you still cast the spell but just provoke, which was why I responded.
Anyway, as far as level 1 Magus goes, I really can't think of a good representation of combat; you don't even have your signature Spell Strike yet.
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First level of Magus 90% of your combats will be 2hd your sword with the occasional spell combat to throw up Shield, True Strike or Hydraulic Push. The rest of the time your spells are for more situational needs.
2nd-5th You'll be be slinging a few more spells each day but primarily you'll be using Arcane Mark/Brand for mooks, Frostbite for multi-opponent fights (2-5 targets) and shocking grasp for bosses.
You'll be a bit more reckless here with your spells since you will have methods of recovering them (Pearls/Spell Recall) but in general you'll start playing like a rogue here. Trying to avoid being the front-liner and waiting for an opportunity to deliver a knockout hit with a shocking grasp spellstrike (or two).
6th-9th is where you really come into your own and start playing a MAGI. You'll have an insane number of options for every action every round with enough spell slots/arcane pool points to respond instantly to every event that occurs. You'll usually be overwhelmed with options so have a few standard tactics set up by this level.
For my Strength magus, I fight like this:
I wait for my tank to engage before going in.
TURN 1
I move towards an enemy.
I attack with my scimitar using two hands.
TURN 2
I initiate Spell Combat.
I attack an enemy with a -2 penalty.
I take a 5-foot step away.
I cast Vanish to turn invisible.
TURN 3
I take advantage of my invisibility to move into position.
I attack the next enemy, getting a bonus because of my invisibility.
TURN 3 (alternate)
I initiate Spell Combat
I cast Shocking Grasp, the enemy unable to make an AoO because they cannot see me.
I deliver Shocking Grasp via melee touch attack as a free action. (If I have spellstrike, I can substitute that melee touch attack with a weapon attack, but at a -2 because of Spell Combat)
I attack the enemy again (-2 penalty), as part of Spell Combat.
I take a 5-foot step to get out of reach of the enemy.
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For my Strength magus, I fight like this:
I wait for my tank to engage before going in.
This is where archetypes alter play greatly.
A Dervish Dance Bladebound Kensai is the tank and will usually have a high initiative to move in before anyone else. At levels 7+, he will nearly always have the highest initiative.
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At first level, if you decide to go DEX over STR, it might be more worth your while to spell combat your round then make a single attack two-handed.
Combat round would go like this -
Declare spell combat
Make your melee attack at -2
Take a 5' step
Cast and make a touch attack with acid splash at -2
No, that's illegal. When using spell combat you can't 2-hdyour weapon. As a full round action with the requirement to have an empty hand for that entire full round you are prohibited from 2-hding anything.
(except for Myrmidarch which just plain $uxs)
I think that Snowball has made the Myrmidarch a much stronger choice than before. (And for anyone with a DM who disapproves of Arcane Mark spellstrikes, Ray of Frost is a nice solution.)
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I think that Snowball has made the Myrmidarch a much stronger choice than before. (And for anyone with a DM who disapproves of Arcane Mark spellstrikes, Ray of Frost is a nice solution.)(except for Myrmidarch which just plain $uxs)
Nope, remember the archetype doesn't change the rules for Spell Combat only spellstrike. This means no spellcombat with their Bows/crossbows since nearly all ranged weapons are 2hd weapons.
If you REALLY wanted to use this archetype you are limited to being a thrower since those are only 1 hd weapopns (Throwing knife/axe, Chakram, etc) with a blinkback belt. This fails too since you can only use your Arcane Pool on 1 weapon at a time.
No, mymidach really, really sux.
I did not realize that. Wow. It's hard to believe that that was intentional; it really does make the archetype crap.
So the Devs have not given us a final word on Arcane mark yet ?
Also still no final word on enchanting your black blade I take it.
I'm planning on Playing a Magus starting this week and I would love to point to a FAQ on those issues.
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If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a concentration check (DC 15 + double the level of the spell you're casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.There is nothing in the entry that says you don't also provoke the AoO as well. All it says is you don't provoke if you succeed and that you loose the spell if you fail. Without anything in the language saying that you lose the spell instead of provoking you could easily suffer both.
Although the Core Rulebook language is indeed ambiguous, there is actually a clear and definitive answer to this question in the Core Rulebook, in the feat Spellbreaker. The feat clarifies that normally, if you fail to cast defensively, you lose the spell but do not provoke an attack of opportunity. Link
You can strike at enemy spellcasters who fail to cast defensively when you threaten them.
Prerequisites: Disruptive, 10th-level fighter.
Benefit: Enemies in your threatened area that fail their checks to cast spells defensively provoke attacks of opportunity from you.
Normal: Enemies that fail to cast spells defensively do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
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So the Devs have not given us a final word on Arcane mark yet ? [...]
I'm planning on Playing a Magus starting this week and I would love to point to a FAQ on those issues.
You mean like this one? Really though, there's no FAQ required; the use of arcane mark with spellstrike isn't some odd rules corner case: it's a clear-cut, valid use of the rules. And it's certainly not OP; you have to cast a spell and succeed on your concentration check, and you'll still be less accurate and deal less damage than, say, a Warrior 1 with 18 Strength and a two-handed weapon.
If you aren't necessarily playing strict RAW, I'd consider asking your DM if you could take Combat Casting and maybe trade it out for something else at a later level.
Or you could by Ultimate Campaign and do it totally RAW!!!!
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