1. Am I right to think that, unless you add higher-level powers to them, these things are stunningly cheap?
2. Is there something I failed to read that would explain what effect, if any, these have on the caster level or craft DC of crafted items?
3. Is it conceptually possible to have skill ranks other than +5 or +10 on one? e.g., are the 2500/10000 costs for those an exhaustive list, or does that just mean that it's N^2*100, same as always? (So, say, could I do 1 rank in a skill for 100? 7 for 4,900?)
4. Is there any extra cost for a spell with expensive material components? e.g., if an item has a special purpose power of "limited wish", does that still just cost 182,000 gp?
5. How much control does the creator have over an item's personality, or special purpose? Alignment?
6. There's a reference note saying items must have some kind of ability to move in order to have skills based on non-mental stats. I see no rules for giving an item the ability to move, unless it's by starting with an item that is already able to do so, such as a dancing sword. (Nevermind, there's a "sprout limbs" on the list.)
7. Can you make up a special purpose not on the list?
8. Can an intelligent item be made able to activate itself? (No, wonder-rod! Not NOW!)
Background on this: Our party has a bard. A bard whose charisma is higher than the sum of her intelligence and wisdom. She desperately wants a lyre of building. I have a mage with craft wondrous item.
Long story short, I am sore tempted by the goal of making an item with 5 ranks in Profession (babysitter) and a high wisdom.
And almost as tempted by the idea of (admittedly outside my budget for now) an item with a special purpose power of "limited wish" and a special purpose of "make sure wielder is having exciting and fun experiences and is not being held back by boring people".
... I have also toyed with the idea of getting her a Rod of Wonder and telling her she'll get the hang of it with practice.
(Note edits, added a question #8.)
Okay, one more question:
9. If you cast permanency to make an invisibility spell permanent on an item, and then enchant the item further to make it intelligent, what happens?
Invisibility can be made permanent on objects, but not on creatures. An intelligent item is considered a construct, and thus a kind of a creature. But it wasn't a creature when the spell was cast...
Which leads to the fascinating question of, if the spell stays on, what happens if it attacks something? Does the invisibility break temporarily, or break forever?
seebs wrote: 1. Am I right to think that, unless you add higher-level powers to them, these things are stunningly cheap? Yes. But then a wise GM pays little heed to the pricing rules - they're "gamed" too easily. Quote: 2. Is there something I failed to read that would explain what effect, if any, these have on the caster level or craft DC of crafted items? Craft DC is related to the price, which usually goes up. And while individual features of an item have their own levels, the object as a whole has a Caster Level too: equal to the highest CL of whatever the item is capable of. Quote: 3. Is it conceptually possible to have skill ranks other than +5 or +10 on one? Conceptually? Yes. But then you're clearly in "home brew" territory. Quote: 4. Is there any extra cost for a spell with expensive material components? Yes, 50x the costs of a single casting. Quote: 5. How much control does the creator have over an item's personality, or special purpose? Alignment? Personality: unclear. Special Purpose: determined by the creator. Alignment: always equal to that of the creator. Quote: 7. Can you make up a special purpose not on the list? Sure. But again: that's "homebrew". Quote: 8. Can an intelligent item be made able to activate itself? They can always activate their own power(s).
seebs wrote: 9. If you cast permanency to make an invisibility spell permanent on an item, and then enchant the item further to make it intelligent, what happens? Either the original object no longer exists, so the effects cast on it should vanish as if it was destroyed. Or you have an invisible intelligent item. Either could work, although: - Paizo posted an "unofficial" option on the website's blog that allows intelligent items to make themselves invisible. It would be simpler to use that.
- Working on an invisible item really should increase the crafting DC by +10. At least!
Quote: if the spell stays on, what happens if it attacks something? Does the invisibility break temporarily, or break forever? Why would it "break temporarily"? It just breaks. Poof!
I think some permanent effects resume after being broken, but I don't recall the details, and could be thinking of any of four or five versions of "D&D".
You say "Craft DC is related to the price, which usually goes up."
Where's that? I didn't see it. The only craft DC I can find in Pathfinder for magic items is caster level + 5. So if an item starts out CL 10, it's craft DC 15, and if you then make it an intelligent item with a special purpose and all stats 20 and casting level 5 spells at will, it's still CL 10, because nothing requires the CL to increase that I can see.
Also, it appears material component cost is 50x for daily limit, but 100x for unlimited. So that unlimited limited wish adds at least 150,000gp for material components. Spendy!
I found the blog post, which was part two of a three-part series, but I only saw two parts up.
I was thinking of just giving an item 3/day 2nd level spell, invisibility, but I would love to make it able to do that basically at-will. Only special purpose powers and level 0 spells seem to be at-will, though.
While I'm asking questions: Are an intelligent item's spells actually spells, or are they spell-like abilities? It says "Item can cast...", but how can they cast without limbs (for somatic components) or speech (if you didn't buy that)?
I've spent some time reading the Permanency page, and most of the Symbol spells if made permanent will reactivate after 10 minutes. Personally I would use that as a precedent for the Invisibility reactivating after it turns off from attacking. Therefore, the item could only attack while invisible once per a combat.
This is just my interpretation, I have no idea what the RAW is for this situation.
And another question, which turns out to be non-obvious to me:
Can a creature or spell which has telepathic ability communicate with an intelligent magic item? I ask because in general constructs are immune to mind-affecting powers. But telepathic bond is not listed as mind-affecting, and I don't see anything definite to that effect on most telepathic things. So it may just be "anything with a language" is the sole qualifier, and it can chatter away with the wizard's pseudodragon.
The CL of any magic item's spell effect is assumed to be the minimum CL to be able to cast that effect, as stated under the magic item creation rules. (Eg: spell lvl1 effect = CL 1; lvl2 = CL3; lvl3 = CL5, etc). The pricing for intelligent item powers reflects this:
(CL * Spell lvl * 2000 [continuous or use activated]) ÷ (charges/day)
Effectively the 2000 ÷ (charges/day) comes out to 400/daily charge, but if you wanted to make something unlimited you would just have to calculate it as 10 charges/day.
The reason that CLs are not listed for intelligent item powers is probably that intelligent items aren't so much meant to be crafted as to be found as part of a plot device or given out as part of a character's background.
As for the telepathy question, I would see no problem with a telepathic character using that ability to communicate with a willing intelligent item. However, no telepathic ability could force it to communicate unwillingly.
The way I'd rule it in some slightly more ambiguous cases, such as detect thoughts which is classified as mind affecting, is that this immunity functions as unbeatable SR (similar to most constructs), but like SR can be lowered if they are willing to accept an effect.
Therefore suddenly being able to communicate with an undetectable intelligence as in the case above might be a little unnerving, as it would seem to be an untethered consciousness at first. ;)
seebs wrote: You say "Craft DC is related to the price, which usually goes up."
Where's that? I didn't see it.
Neither did I, in retrospect. Sorry, my bad.
Quote: While I'm asking questions: Are an intelligent item's spells actually spells, or are they spell-like abilities? It says "Item can cast...", but how can they cast without limbs (for somatic components) or speech (if you didn't buy that)? They can "cast", because they always can activate their own abilities.
Well, yes, but are they actually "casting"? Concentration checks? Attacks of opportunity? Or does "cast" in this context really mean "can activate as a spell-like ability"?
3.5E had an extra paragraph in the section on creating magic items, for intelligent items, stating that they required CL 15 period. I currently theorize that dropping this from the rules was an intentional choice, because intelligent items are not inherently particularly powerful; it's only when you give them the high-level or expensive powers that they become powerful, and at that point, it's a question of resource allocation.
seebs wrote: Well, yes, but are they actually "casting"? Concentration checks? Attacks of opportunity? Or does "cast" in this context really mean "can activate as a spell-like ability"? Dunno.
Quote: intelligent items are not inherently particularly powerful I beg to differ, invoking those two words so often used on the forum: Action Economy. When your belongings start casting spells during your turn, at no cost to you, you have gained a very potent item. First level spells can be quite useful when you don't have to cast them yourself.
You have a point there. I was mostly just thinking in terms of a specific application -- giving our party bard a sidekick smart enough and wise enough to mostly keep her out of trouble.
Obviously if we gave it significant powers, it would change things a lot more.
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