Goblin Squad Member
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I have thought on how exactly is the climate in the River Kingdoms and I have come up with this: first there is a number and then the name of the location which is similar in the real world to this climate zone and finally the chance of this climate zone appearing within the River Kingdoms.
1: Tropical - Extremely Unlikely
2: Spain - Highly Unlikely
3: Southern France - Unlikely
4: Northern France/Southern Germany - High
5: Northern Germany - Very High
Please give your comments below.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From the screenshots it looks Temperate.
Certainly no Tropical or Sub-Tropical. And not sure if any Mediterranean scrub or forest either, so far.
What I'd like to see is some "mountainous" or at least Montane geography so you have Temperate, Temperate Montane, Sub-Alpine and possibly even Alpine if peaks were even higher (which I think is not the case). So Ideally at least the 3 types of ecological zones by altitude for diversity. Marshland and other ecological habitats could then be built into the main zones?
So that would be 4. and 5. and ideally including the Alps somewhat, though they have said there are no Mountains so likely only some uplands at most.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think it looks fairly temperate from the screenshots also. The starting map is small, currently without mountains (hello Avena ;P) so I doubt it would be more than one climate. I will say #4.
The whole River Kingdoms, I can't comment on as I do not have the source material.
Yeah, I will change my mind and say that climate zone #4 is probably the most likely but I can no longer change my original post.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Its almost certainly Temperate.
Geography is likely where it will vary.
Forests, Mountains, Hills, Plains, Swamps/Marshes, etc.
If/when the play area expands to reach mountains we may get some snowy areas. If there are valleys with a low enough elevation, there could be some sub-tropical stuff going on there, but I find it unlikely.
Perhaps a year or two after launch they could do seasons ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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In a completely different thread James Jacobs stated:
Golarion is actually the same size as earth. The equator is south of the bottom edge of the Inner Sea map, while the arctic circle is north of it. Irrisen is really the only land along the north that's all about ice, but that's partially because it's a land of magical eternal winter.
If assuming the lower edge of the Inner Sea is the equator and the upper edge is the artic circle, then River Kingdoms correspond roughly to... Ukraine.
(köppen climate type Dwa)
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Goblin Squad Member
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In a completely different thread James Jacobs stated:
Golarion is actually the same size as earth. The equator is south of the bottom edge of the Inner Sea map, while the arctic circle is north of it. Irrisen is really the only land along the north that's all about ice, but that's partially because it's a land of magical eternal winter.
If assuming the lower edge of the Inner Sea is the equator and the upper edge is the artic circle, then River Kingdoms correspond roughly to... Ukraine.
(köppen climate type Dwa)
That would put it in climate zone #6 or #7. *scratches head*
I'm thinking that it's more like Germany be it the northern part or the southern part.
So climate zone #4 or #5.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Looking at the Inner Sea map the question of Temperate according to latitude seems about right, but how far are the River Kingdoms from the Ocean. Because that changes it from Temperate Continental (colder drier Winters, Hot Summers) to Moderate Oceanic (Milder wetter Winters, Warm/cool Summers)?
I guess miles could be worked out if:
This area is roughly 11 miles wide and 12 miles tall—about 133 square miles.
Using a ruler on the maps in the blog (very rough distances): 0.5cm = 11 miles = width of game map
So the River Kingdoms in full is 13cm so 26 * 11 miles = 286 miles width in total.
Looking at the full Inner Sea map and the River Kingdoms are roughly this same distance again in Longitude East of the nearest large Ocean.
This compares to Western Europe and the North Atlantic for eg in both Lat/Long. Ukraine looking at google maps is roughly 1,083 miles by comparison to the Atlantic Ocean.
This is really rough calculations in a matter of minutes measuring maps that may not be very accurate, but it's definitely borderline between:
Temperate Oceanic a bit more likely than Temperate Continental. Because we don't know how the climate actually works in Golarion (?) then it's a toss up between the 2 given the currents might be different and the one large continent North to South with a similar body of water adjacent to it. Possibly a better comparison might be the equivalent Western Coast of the USA and Pacific? ;)
Edit: Looking at the Inner Sea map there's a mountain range between the Ocean and the River Lands which would normally make it fall into a sort of "Rain Shadow" if Oceanic clouds come off the coast? That said the rivers probably provide a lot of the moisture for forests/green vegetation.
Also seeing how close to that permanent icesheet, that if as large (same region of) as say the arctic/antarctic likely has a cooling effect given the proximity of the distance?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The weather is probably Temperate Continental, like Ukraine or the American Midwest. Despite being next to a huge freshwater lake, my hometown still has the cold dry winters and the hot humid summers of continental.
I vote Ukraine. Beautiful country, especially the horse chestnut trees in Kiev.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The weather is probably Temperate Continental, like Ukraine or the American Midwest. Despite being next to a huge freshwater lake, my hometown still has the cold dry winters and the hot humid summers of continental.That's certainly how I view it, Stormweaver. I lived in Wisconsin for a few years, and I figured that relatively flat land near a major river system might not be all that different from the terrain around the Mississippi River bottomlands. Since the area is a long way from any moderating ocean, I figure that you'd have hot, humid summers and cold, snowy winters (could be serious lake effect, after all).
So, more like St. Louis or Cincinnati than northern Germany, but maybe with more snow.
Rich Baker
Writer/Developer, Goblinworks
What a coincidence, I'm from Wisconsin! Superior to be precise. Living across the river in Duluth now though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From the screenshots it looks Temperate.
Certainly no Tropical or Sub-Tropical. And not sure if any Mediterranean scrub or forest either, so far.
What I'd like to see is some "mountainous" or at least Montane geography so you have Temperate, Temperate Montane, Sub-Alpine and possibly even Alpine if peaks were even higher (which I think is not the case). So Ideally at least the 3 types of ecological zones by altitude for diversity. Marshland and other ecological habitats could then be built into the main zones?
So that would be 4. and 5. and ideally including the Alps somewhat, though they have said there are no Mountains so likely only some uplands at most.
Hi Avena, The River Kingdoms area doesn't have any mountainous areas, being mostly rivers, marsh, plains and forests. River Kingdoms Map
Given the location of the River Kingdoms in the Inner Sea Region of Golarion, it would be pretty much temperate, with some colder Winters as winds come from the North, sort of like parts of New England.
Hope this helps!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks Gloreindl, I think I'm building the picture up.
Ryan recently said it will be along the lines of:
In that area there is a river, and a forest, and some fairly significant marshy areas, and I think a couple of fairly big hills. I wouldn’t really call them mountains, but they’ll probably look like mountains in the game.
So that makes me very happy to hear in terms of immersion in another world. But the influence of mountains can be very good in several ways I think:
1. Increase tactical terrain on the map (ie increase ambush/trade route bottlenecks, difficulty to traverse and therefore a strong Monster hex etc.
2. Possible climate system with snow, mist, precipitation effects that might have immersion and gameplay effects.
3. Variable travel speed over inclined slopes which influence trade and escape routes or work as a natural border between hexes.
4. If there are deep ravines and cliffs then control points over bridges?
5. Particular flora/fauna and mobs of the area with "habitat appropriate resources such as for mining.
6. If any of the above and a monster hex a good place for Dragons (eg knocking players off cliffs to their doom). :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mountains won't be in for a while; 'steep hills' will not even come close to 'small mountains' unfortuantely... it's just not part of the terrain in the area. I'd expect a long wait before we see any sort of mountainous region... that is, unless they chose to open up a completely new area w/out needing the two areas to be directly connected.
According to an interview with Mr. Dancey by someone somewhere.=P
There is a possibility of map expansion through portals in the future.|
Goblin Squad Member
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I still think these "hill-mountain" things will look the part. But I hope they even if in scale are more "game-like" can still provide some of the above positive contributions of say "full/real mountain ranges/peaks".
Eg micro-climate effects and if that is aesthetic and/or game-system influencing ie right climate for rate of crop growth etc. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope we get an interesting climate for the River Kingdoms for growing season for crops and so on. As well as Winter changing the conditions of food security and transport.
This is interesting: Scientists simulate the climate of Tolkien’s Middle Earth ~ You can read the pdf paper at the site.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Most mountains look like hills anyway because you have to stand on them to get close. Some hills are as steep and picturesque as mountains anyway.
'Mountain' is about altitude, not shape or steepness. Peaks can be defined by primary factor, but old mountains have gentle slopes.
To use examples from my parts, This mountain is much larger and taller than These. In my opinion this is a demi-mountain at best since it isn't tall enough to have proper mountain flora.
I should probably add that in Norway, "the mountains" (unspecified) typically refers to any part of the country above the tree line.