Changeling and Adopted Trait Question


Rules Questions


So, say I have a Changeling character with her two claw attacks. If she takes the adopted trait of Tusked (Half-orc) she gains a 1d4 bite attack.

Am I correct that with a full-attack action she get the claws at full BAB and full strength damage but the bite is a -5 BAB and 1/2 strength?

Thanks.


RAW, it states that it would be made at -5 during a full attack, it doesn't say half damage.


So basically, PF is really bad at using its own keywords. I am pretty sure "As part of a full attack" refers to full attacks using manufactured weapons. Its just a reminder of how natural attacks work. Unless the trait is creating a new class of natural attacks that is neither primary nor secondary, the bite must be one or the other.

We know it is not secondary, since it would not need to qualify the -5 with a "as part of a full attack". By process of elimination, it must be a primary attack.

Thus, the following is true:

-> If you make an attack with the bite: Full bab, Full strength bonus.

-> If you make a full attack with bite and claws: Full bab bite and claws, Full strength bonus

-> If you make a full attack with bite, one claw and a longsword: Full bab for the longsword, -5 to hit for claw and bite, 1/2 strength bonus on claw and bite, full strength on longsword.

Grand Lodge

Magenta has it right.

The bite is primary, but the trait text reminds you how natural attacks work with manufactured attacks, and it confuses many.


Wasn't there a thread awhile back about the relative power of the trait (versus let's say the feat which does the same thing but is restricted to one race)? The fact that what it granted was the same as the feat for less? I want to say someone from Paizo poked their head in and suggested it be an exception to the rule of bites being primary, which is along the lines of what a trait should offer.

Grand Lodge

That makes no sense.

I attack with the Bite as a standard action, it's primary.

I full attack, but only attack with the Bite, and it's secondary?

No, this is not a bite full of exceptions.

It is a bite, and functions as one.


Whether it "makes sense" is rather irrelevant. The mechanics of the game follow the 'we have a general rule which is followed unless there is an exception,' when the trait states it is at -5 when full attacking that is an exception.

The rules don't always 'make sense' but they are still the rules.

Grand Lodge

It is not called out as secondary.

As default, it is Primary.

Reading something in the description that isn't there, to make exceptions, doesn't help.

It is primary, and should be treated as such.


This is all moot as the OP has confused Racial Traits (Tusked which replaces Orc Ferocity) with Race Traits (which are gained with the Adopted trait).

Grand Lodge

No, Tusked is a Race trait, from Orcs of Golarion.

Toothy, is an alternate Racial trait from the Advanced Race Guide.

These are not the same thing.

They don't even have the same name.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

It is not called out as secondary.

As default, it is Primary.

Reading something in the description that isn't there, to make exceptions, doesn't help.

It is primary, and should be treated as such.

If used by itself sure.

As soon as you full attack even with other natural attacks as there is no exemption it is used with a -5. It doesn't 'act' like a primary attack then, RAW.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

No, Tusked is a Race trait, from Orcs of Golarion.

Toothy, is an alternate Racial trait from the Advanced Race Guide.

These are not the same thing.

They don't even have the same name.

Now that just makes things even more confusing on Race Traits/Racial Traits.

>_<

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Changeling and Adopted Trait Question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.