really about snipping:
"If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location."
what is the dierrence between snipping an attack(standar action) an move action using stealth, i dont understand what u win using "sniping" is a move action anyway
Sniping is a special attack that creates a special circumstance. If you roll well and if you beat your enemy's Perception, you NEVER leave the cover of Stealth. It might be more accurate, and less confusing, to say: although you momentarily leave the cover of Stealth in the instant that you attack, you disappear back under the cover of Stealth so rapidly after the attack that you are never spotted and thus can't be hunted down effectively.
Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to MAINTAIN YOUR OBSCURED LOCATION.
If you are MAINTAINING your obscured location, the idea is that you are NEVER seen and remain essentially under the cover of Stealth through the entire attack sequence. Hence the term "Sniping."
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Also, outside of Sniping, Stealth is never done as a Move Action. Usually it takes no action at all, or is taken as part of a movement. A movement is not the same as a Move Action.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
if i have "hide in plain sight"(dungeon and im in a dungeon) i can attack(standard action) and i can move using stealth and i havent peenalty at the stealth and will be the same result of sniping
pd: im a lv 13 rogue with adv talent hide in plain sight:dungeon and talent: favorite terrain:dungeon.
Btw sniping is useless for me in a dungeon, i have a 60 feet speed (30 base+30 haste when i activate my boots xD)
if i have "hide in plain sight"(dungeon and im in a dungeon) i can attack(standard action) and i can move using stealth and i havent peenalty at the stealth and will be the same result of sniping
No, it won't.
Sniping: You fire an arrow and immediately hide. If you are successful, the guy you shot doesn't know where you are.
Not Sniping: You fire an arrow. The guy looks at you. You then hide. The guy still knows exactly where you were when you fired that arrow. Yes, you probably moved when you used stealth again, but he still knows where you were, and roughly where you probably are.
The key word there is usually. You can make a stealth check as PART of a movement, meaning you have to be taking a move action to make a stealth check.
"Movement" and "Move Action" are not the same thing. There are no rules or descriptions anywhere in RAW that define "movement" especially none that name it as being the same as "move action." A lot of people say "as part of a Move Action" but that is not what RAW says.
I just had a very detailed discussion on this starting at THIS POST. My specific responses were on THIS POST and THIS POST.
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The highlights from those posts are:
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action.
Usually you don't need ANY action at all. If you are standing in an area where you qualify for Stealth and aren't being observed there is no reason you should have to move at all to begin Stealth.
Example: You are in the dark corner of a room when a few guards start to open the door. You are in a dim or dark area, you are not observed, therefore you can roll Stealth right where you stand. It requires no action at all. As long as you don't lose your concealment in that corner and the guards don't spot you, you will remain under Stealth in that corner.
Example 2: You have the Disappear Unnoticed (Ex) monk ability from the Wanderer Archetype, you are standing near a creature your size or larger, you spend a point of Ki to use the ability. Now you qualify to use Stealth, you don't need cover or concealment, and it doesn't matter if you are observed. You may roll Stealth with no additional action required, not even a 5' step. Although you may want to 5' step so your enemies might not know which square you are hiding in.
2. If you do need to use Stealth while moving, such as masking your footsteps to a new location, or if it makes sense to move, such as a 5' step so your enemy might not know which square you're hiding in, you can also use Stealth as part of a "movement" so it takes no seperate action.
This movement is not a specified move or distance. It doesn't say "as part of a Move Action" it's just an unspecified movement of any kind. I believe a 5' step absolutely qualifies as some unspecified form of movement. You are moving.
Example: You are standing in a bright room with no cover or concealment and some guards start opening the door. You roll Stealth to remain quiet "as you move" to a possition that grants cover. You currently have cover, as the guards are on the other side of the door. You are unobserved and moving to a place where even when the guards walk in you will have cover, so you qualify for Stealth. But you have to move around so you are rolling Stealth as part of the movement to mask the sound of that movement, not just to reamin unseen.
Example 2: You are hiding from some guards at night behind a tree. The area is dim. You need to move away from the tree. You roll Stealth while moving away, as to mask you from the eyes of the guards, and mask your foot steps from the ears of the guards. You have concealment so you qualify for this Stealth roll and it's made as part of that movement, not requiring a specific action itself.
The only time Stealth ever takes any specific action to perform is when you are using it as part of a Sniper attack, in which case it takes up your Move Action.
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Normally (it says it right there) you do not need a SEPARATE action but you make it as part of a move action.
Yes, that sentence is in the description (but it doesn't say move action), right after the sentence that says "Usually NONE." I stand by my interpretations. Requiring NO SPECIFIC ACTION, is requiring NO SPECIFIC ACTION. It doesn't matter if you later say it's usually taken as part of a movement or not, the fact is it usually requires NO action. As stated in the first sentence of the action requirements.
And in any case, you are still miss-quoting the rules. Stealth is NEVER made as PART of a MOVE ACTION. The rules specifically call out three instances: 1. No action, 2. Movement, and 3. a FULL Move Action for Sniping. That is it.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
There is no instance where Stealth is taken as "part of a move action" as you miss-quoted and the word movement is not specifically defined in the rules. Your wanting it to mean Move Action doesn't make it so, and it is unlikely the writers even intended it to mean that because they do specifically name a Move Action later in the text when refering to Stealth as part of a Sniper attack.
A "movement" could be any number of things to include, moving during a move action, taking a 5' step, or even just standing in my same square and turning sideways to disappear. Movement is undefined in the rules. You ARE moving when you do any of the following things: draw a weapon, wrap a cloak around yourself, take a drink, take a single step within my current square, squat down, flatten yourself against a wall, and/or an endless number of other potentiall things that are all movements.
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Additionally, IF I am wrong in my interpretation than please explain this:
Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Stealth checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Stealth checks if you're moving.
If Stealth MUST be part of a movement or be a Move Action in EVERY case, then how can Invisibility grant you a +40 on Stealth Checks when you are immobile? I don't know how you interpret immobile but I take it to mean that you have not taken a Standard Action, Move Action, or 5' Step. In fact you probably haven't done much beyond breathing and blinking. If Stealth checks are impossible without some form of moving around (or according to your quote, being part of a Move Action) how do I make a Stealth check and get +40 to it while standing immobile?
if i have "hide in plain sight"(dungeon and im in a dungeon) i can attack(standard action) and i can move using stealth and i havent peenalty at the stealth and will be the same result of snipingNo, it won't.
Sniping: You fire an arrow and immediately hide. If you are successful, the guy you shot doesn't know where you are.
Not Sniping: You fire an arrow. The guy looks at you. You then hide. The guy still knows exactly where you were when you fired that arrow. Yes, you probably moved when you used stealth again, but he still knows where you were, and roughly where you probably are.
Grick is correct. There is a rather big difference between using HiPS and Sniping. With Sniping you are never dectected if you are successful. With HiPS you will be detected but don't take a penalty to your Stealth roll as you do when Sniping.