Could someone help me with the five levels leading into Dragon Disciple?

[JohnnyOneLung]

Going to be playing the Shattered Star AP soon and want to build play as a a Dragon Disciple. I'm not looking to be the big hitter but I wouldn't mind playing a versatile character.

After the first 5 levels, I'm going to go straight Dragon Disciple, up to 15. I don't know what level the AP goes up to but that should be enough, right?

Anyway here he is. 20pt buy, 2 traits.

Aasimar, Angelkin.

Magical Knack (+2 Spellcaster level)
Underlying Principles (+1 UMD, class skill)

STR 18 (+2 Racial, +1 Level 4)
DEX 7
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 16 (+2 Racial)

1. Oracle (Lore; Sidestep secret, Lame)
2. Barbarian
3. Sorcerer (Draconic, Golden)
4. Sorcerer
5. Sorcerer

Attack:
+6 to hit +4 damage. Not sure about what weapon to take yet.

Defense:
AC: 20 (10 +6 from Armor, +3 from Charisma, +1 Natural)
Saves: Fort 5, Reflex 5, Will 7
Resistances: acid, cold, electricity, fire resistance; 5

Feats: Really drawing a blank here. I'm not going to be useless in a fight but is Power Attack going to be worth it? I'll have a very limited +2 BAB until level 7. Maybe Skill Focus: Knowledge Planes and get the Abyssal Powers as I level?

So is this going to be okay? The group I'm going to be playing with optimise quite a bit so I don't want to be left behind.

[Blakmane]

why the level in barbarian? Why have you nerfed dex so hard over wis or int, considering you aren't going to be in armour?

Another reasonably effective DD gish build is Pal 2 Sorc 3. Gives you a higher BAB and saves than in your example.

[Makarion]

Bard is another decent pick, especially the arcane duelist. Either bard 5 or something like barb 3 / bard 2.

[blackbloodtroll]

Who would ever dump dex below 10?

That's suicide.

[RuyanVe]

Greetings, fellow traveller.

The easiest way--because it holds the information asked for and so much more--would be to go to Oterisk's guide to the DD in the Guide to the Guide sticky thread.

Weapon-wise, I'd go for a reach weapon.
With your stats I highly recommend Improved Initiative and Toughness (boring but life savers).

Ruyan.

EDIT: Linkified.

[erikdlan]

I have recently finished a high level game (we started at level 16) where I played a dragon disciple and I really enjoyed the class.

RuyanVe is right and Oterisk's guide is a must for any dragon disciple wannabe.

Why the level in oracle? You won't get any divine spellcasting support in your dd levels and dd is not a full attack bonus class. I would totally make it a Barb 2/Sorc 3 or Barb 1/ Sorc 4. If you want some divine flavor in the mix, you can make an awesome Palla 2/Sorc 3 build.

Feats: RuyanVe's advice is gold. I think that your saves won't be impressive so great fortitude could be good for your health too.

Feats great for dds: the eldritch heritage chain (put some abyssal or orc blood in your life and become the strongest one!), spell perfection and the dimensional agility chain.

The magical knack trait is almost too good for a dd and it's flavorful for being the disciple of a magical creature.

[soupturtle]

I see why you've taken the oracle level (sidestep secret allows you to dump dex), but I think you'd be better off without it, and just reworking your other ability scores a bit. Right now, you will have a BAB of +2 at level 6, which just isn't enough to hit anything reliably. A straight swap of your dex and wis would work just fine, and you could live with slightly lower int as well.

I second the referral to Oterisk's guide, but I'll try some advice myself as well:
- Don't take any levels that aren't either sorcerer or a full BAB class.
- 3 levels of sorcerer seems like the worst of both worlds (although I could see it for a paladin), as you lose a second point of BAB but still don't get 2nd level spells until level 7. I'd try to go for either 2 or 4 levels of sorcerer, personally.
- As for feats, if you're going for barbarian you definitely want extra rage, probably twice. Arcane armor training is worth considering as well. It doesn't work with quicken spell, but then you won't really miss it until at least level 15 as you just won't have the spell slots for the 4 level increase, and most campaigns never get there. At low levels arcane armor training isn't any better than just casting mage armor, but once you can start to afford enchanting a mithral chain shirt, it is.

[Salindurthas]

As soupturtle said, it might be best to avoid too many drops in BAB. The Sidestep secret is cool, but if you were to try to go without it these would be my suggestions.

I don't know if a Barbarian dip is good or not, but if you are doing it then it is probably best to take that at level 1 in order to get the automatic 12 hitpoints.

2 levels of Paladin is strong, as it gives Cha to all saves.

For traits, I don't see why you need UMD as a class skill.

So, maybe:
1 Barbarian
2 Paladin
3 Paladin
4 Sorcerer
5 Sorcerer
This gives you a decent 4 BAB at level 5, and 12+2d10+2d6 hitpoints.

For stats, including the racial +2 STR and CHA, you can, at level 5, have.
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 7
CHA 18
Which should give you these saves:
FORT=11
REFLEX=5
WIll=8

[Salindurthas]

Another possible level progression would be
1 Paladin
2 Paladin
3 Oracle (Sidestep secret)
4 Sorcerer
5 Sorcerer
This gives 3 BAB at level 5 and 10+d10+d8+2d6 hp.

Now you can dump dex to get something like this at level 5.
STR 18
DEX 7
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 18
With saves of:
FORT=9
REFLEX=8
WILL=12

EDIT:
Hell, with a will save that high you could even get away with dumping wisdom too!

[Midnight_Angel]

Salindurthas wrote:

So, maybe:

1 Barbarian
2 Paladin
3 Paladin
4 Sorcerer
5 Sorcerer

Which, of course, may run into some slight issues with the Palladin = Lawful Good and Barbarian = Non-Lawful rules.

Not every GM is too thrilled to allow alignment changes in the career for the reason of 'my build requires that'. In any case, that's no raging any more.

[Salindurthas]

Midnight_Angel wrote:

Salindurthas wrote:

So, maybe:

1 Barbarian
2 Paladin
...

Which, of course, may run into some slight issues with the Paladin = Lawful Good and Barbarian = Non-Lawful rules.

HAHAHA oh man I didn't even consider that. Duh.

I guess this is what you get when I try to give build advice with a fever >_<

[BigNorseWolf]

Pally
Pally
Pally
Bard-Arcane Duelist (since bards don't need to be non lawful anymore)
Bard
Dragon disciple