Having a bit of a disagreement on the rules of physical blasts on swarms that have weapon immunity.
My friend says that says that blasts bypass the swarms weapon immunity
since they always do full damage to swarms, while I say since they have Immunity to weapon damage the physical blast would have no effect on the creautre because its immune to weapon damage and though they do full damage to swarms it does not state they bypass immunites.
(Like how a fire blast would not harm a swarm immune to fire)
Which one of us is right?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/bonestorm
is the monster in question
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Kinetic blasts deal full damage to swarms due to them involving large amounts of elemental matter. Swarms get weapon immunity due to there being so many individual entities as part of the swarm, that the great sword's killing ONE of them makes no effective difference. Launching a giant boulder at a swarm is not the same thing as swinging a rapier at one. When the boulder hits, it's gonna crush a significant number of the swarming critters. The rapier might hit one or two of them.
I'd have to double check, but I think energy based elemental blasts do 1.5x damage. Physical blasts such as an air blast, water blast, or earth blast do their normal damage. Which is one reason why kineticists are so useful against swarms... assuming the kineticist can hit the dang thing.
That said, if the swarm is immune to fire... then yes a fire blast would be kind of useless.
Kinetic blasts always deal their regular damage to swarms. If a swarm has resistance or immunity to an energy type, then the resistance/immunity stills applies if the blast is of that energy. Kinetic blasts only deal extra damage in an infusion makes the blast an aoe.
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As a reference, from pages 11 and 12 of Occult Adventures:
Even the weakest kinetic blast involves a sizable mass of
elemental matter or energy, so kinetic blasts always deal full
damage to swarms of any size (though only area blasts deal
extra damage to swarms). A readied kinetic blast can be used
to counterspell any spell of equal or lower level that shares
its descriptor.
And it looks like my memory was off. Only aoe kinetic blasts such as Fan of Flames or similar effects would deal 1.5x damage to swarms. And yes, this does imply that a pyrokinetic could use a readied blast to dispel a fireball, rain of fire, or flamestrike. Provided the kineticist is high enough level that is. Or could in theory I suppose negate a dragon's firebreath. Although I would expect a hydrokineticist using the Quench infusion would be more likely to do that.
Talk about a surprised dragon.
Kinetic blast explicitly says it does full damage (1x). It then says aoe infusions cause it to do the bonus damage.
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As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn't have hands). All damage from a kinetic blast is treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus. The kineticist is never considered to be wielding or gripping the kinetic blast (regardless of effects from form infusions; see Infusion), and she can't use Vital Strike feats with kinetic blasts. Even the weakest kinetic blast involves a sizable mass of elemental matter or energy, so kinetic blasts always deal full damage to swarms of any size (though only area blasts deal extra damage to swarms). A readied kinetic blast can be used to counterspell any spell of equal or lower level that shares its descriptor. A kinetic blast that deals energy damage of any type (including force) has the corresponding descriptor.
Relevant text bolded. Basically, your single-target blasts deal regular damage, even if they're physical blasts, and AoE blasts (such as ones with Torrent or Singularity infusions applied to them) get the extra damage applied.
Additionally, it only is considered a weapon for the purpose of feats, which means it isn't considered a weapon for the purpose of the damage it deals. Since both the bonestorm's weapon immunity and swarms' innate weapon damage immunity aren't feats, they won't grant the bonestorm immunity to a kinetic blast's damage. Its only immunities are going to be against cold blast and negative blast (as well as taking half damage from their respective composite blasts).
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Which does raise a question I had last night. Does wearing a cestis count as 'empty handed' for gathering power, even though it lets you count as armed for provoking an attack of opportunity? Similarly, do gauntlets let you take attacks of opportunity if you're otherwise not holding a weapon? This can be important for a kineticist who's not using the monk style archtype.
Which does raise a question I had last night. Does wearing a cestis count as 'empty handed' for gathering power, even though it lets you count as armed for provoking an attack of opportunity? Similarly, do gauntlets let you take attacks of opportunity if you're otherwise not holding a weapon? This can be important for a kineticist who's not using the monk style archtype.
Cestus does let you gather power because your hand is empty and still let you threaten for the purposes of flanking and attacks of opportunity.
Which does raise a question I had last night. Does wearing a cestis count as 'empty handed' for gathering power, even though it lets you count as armed for provoking an attack of opportunity? Similarly, do gauntlets let you take attacks of opportunity if you're otherwise not holding a weapon? This can be important for a kineticist who's not using the monk style archtype.
One thing to keep in mind is that you can take an AoO with a blast with Kinetic Whip or Devastating Infusion (if you pick up the Elemental Annihilator archetype).
Going to hop in here and agree that your friend has the right of it, OP. While I understand your perspective, the kinetic blast text specifically states all blasts deal full damage to swarms. Your group could Houserule that the physical blasts don't deal damage to swarms; however, if you folks are going by the ability, then it's full damage regardless of swarm size/type.
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Which does raise a question I had last night. Does wearing a cestis count as 'empty handed' for gathering power, even though it lets you count as armed for provoking an attack of opportunity? Similarly, do gauntlets let you take attacks of opportunity if you're otherwise not holding a weapon? This can be important for a kineticist who's not using the monk style archtype.One thing to keep in mind is that you can take an AoO with a blast with Kinetic Whip or Devastating Infusion (if you pick up the Elemental Annihilator archetype).
Problem is my PFS kineticist (and the one I'm making for a game I'm joining) aren't high enough level to have kinetic whip. And Kinetic Blade only lasts for the action it's used in.
That's why I was asking about cestis and gauntlets. This tripped me up in PFS play since I could only use my kitsune's bite attack for attacks of opportunity.
Cestus is fine. Just don't refer to it as an unarmed attack and you're all good.
Wearing a cestus doesn't stop one from still using that hand to do somatic components or even hold another weapon. So a free hand wearing a cestus is available to be used to gather power and/or kinetic blast.