I noticed that a bowyer has to get Precise Shot or take a -4 to attack someone who is engaged in melee. Do Wizards have to do that as well, so they can use Scorching Ray on a target that is currently engaged in melee?
Yes, but touch attacks are much easier to hit.
Under the FAQ for the Core rulebook Sean Reynolds does a good job of explaining this. All spells that require attack rolls fall into the rules for that type of attack.
For example, even if I cast defensively, I could still draw an attack of oportunity if I am using Scorching Ray while I am in a threatened square. At that point you would not loose the spell but you could still take the damage.
The good news is that Point Blank Shot will also allow you to apply the bonuses to your Scorching Ray and you can take Weapon Focus in touch attacks or ranged touch attacks (the last one is a little tricky with some saying that you need Weapon Focus (ray) and others saying Weapon Focus (ranged touch attack) is fine).
crap! I have been running it without such things, and I know damned well that attack rolls are really difficult for his character, even if he DOES have a nice dexterity.
Yes, Touch AC is usually very low, but so is his PC's bonus to hit.
Well, Touch AC is a wierd thing because its very possible that it will become lower and lower as you fight monsters. It rarely goes up but for monsters the bigger they get the bigger the hit to dexterity and AC they take.
That said, you have a good chance to hit unless your fighting an army of monks.
Okay, he's 3rd level, and he only has 4 second level spells to play with. His bonus to hit is all of 3! So firing into melee results in a -1 modifier.
This is so low it's scary, and he doesn't have the feat slots to work with and get Point Blank and Precise Shot. Only way I know of to speed things up results in him losing 2 caster levels and taking the first 2 Fighter levels. Dammit.
Low level arcane casters aren't great. They make it up as they level.
But party tactics does make it easiere.
use a fre action to ask the fighter to get out of the way - delay or ready and action.
melee touch's can flank (indeed holding a Mtouch spell counts as armed hehe) and a Rtouch (whether ray, which i dont think is a type anymore, or just attack) have the same bonus/penalty as any other weapon (and are considered weapons for many effects. On the plus side, once spells fall off for the day, he can pick up a (cross)bow and still be a factor.
I am assuming wizard with 14/15 dex? And yea, excluding MM (mean anti-caster spell) the smaller enemies will be his bane while the bigger ones (other than keeping them away) will be just a large target.
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Bracers of falcon's aim apply (though consensus is that they should be priced at 12 000 gp, not 4 000 gp).
Also you should allow him a rebuild. At 3rd level any character has the 2 feat slots necessary to get Precise Shot.
A blaster wizard is a ranged attack character, just as an archer is. If he wants to be one, he needs to invest in the feats.
i've another question about ranged attacks with spells.. can i use Snap Shot with a ray spell??
Snap Shot (Combat)
With a ranged weapon, you can take advantage of any opening in your opponent’s defenses.Prerequisite: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.
Normal: While wielding a ranged weapon, you threaten no squares and can make no attacks of opportunity with that weapon.
FAQ/Errata
Can a character with Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes make multiple attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon, assuming that loading the ranged weapon is a free action?
Yes. As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat.
So... if you can cast ray as a free action...or if you were holding the charge... yea... i'd say you'd have to be holding the charge.
where ya get that?
From the PRD:
"Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn."
fair enough. guess that answers that question, then.
He simply needs to coordinate tactics with his allies better. Such as "I ready a scorching ray spell for when my fighter friend steps out of the way.
If the fighter takes a 5-ft step, then his opponent is no longer in melee.
I will tell them this, most carefully, but I should also state to you guys that this is not always possible in dungeons (no space to maneuver, and most of my adventures are in dungeons or other limited space environs) and that this also would wipe out any full attacks they might use when they level up to 5-6th.
That just makes me miss Minute Meteors... 1/round...
Hell, I miss the old Chromatic Orb spell from 2nd ed. Sigh. And they STILL haven't corrected the fact that an unintelligent creature, even if undead, can't possibly be Evil since they haven't a thought in their heads, they're robots!
I will tell them this, most carefully, but I should also state to you guys that this is not always possible in dungeons (no space to maneuver, and most of my adventures are in dungeons or other limited space environs) and that this also would wipe out any full attacks they might use when they level up to 5-6th.He simply needs to coordinate tactics with his allies better. Such as "I ready a scorching ray spell for when my fighter friend steps out of the way.
If the fighter takes a 5-ft step, then his opponent is no longer in melee.
Replying to the bolded part: A five-foot step is allowed as part of a full-attack or full-round action.
The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.
Hell, I miss the old Chromatic Orb spell from 2nd ed. Sigh. And they STILL haven't corrected the fact that an unintelligent creature, even if undead, can't possibly be Evil since they haven't a thought in their heads, they're robots!
Chromatic Orb actually came out in 1st edition AD&D and it made my little Gnome Illusionist a power to be reckoned with for sure. I like the way it scaled up as you got higher in level. It was in Unearthed Arcana and that book was such a blessing for Illusionists.
Sigh, I so miss my Chromatic Orb spell! That, and the one where it made skeletons explode in a burst of negative energy when they got destroyed.... Man, that was a cool spell.
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Thread derail
And they STILL haven't corrected the fact that an unintelligent creature, even if undead, can't possibly be Evil since they haven't a thought in their heads, they're robots!
Ultron would have a word with you.
Also, non-Evil robots do not go on a rampage blindly killing living beings without being ordered to do so. Undead do, even the non-sentient ones : "While most skeletons are mindless automatons, they still possess an evil cunning imparted to them by their animating force" and "When left unattended, zombies tend to mill about in search of living creatures to slaughter and devour."
Do you consider fire to be evil, even when it blindly goes rampaging?
There's lots of beasts in the Bestiary that are neutral that blindly attack whatever. Some don't do it for food.
I don't know what this has to do with touch attacks, but yes undead are usually malevolent, powered by negative energy, and if mindless they are constructs powered by negative energy which may have been birthed from a horrible death or an evil diety.
Negative energy has never, ever been said to be innately Evil. Not once.
I don't know what this has to do with touch attacks,
It got brought up because I was mourning the loss of a certain spell to modify skeletons into being explosive upon being shattered. I don't know how to change the title of the thread.
Alternate reasoning: Animate Dead explicitly has the [evil] descriptor, hence creating the undead is akin to summoning a non-alignment-subtyped creature (as if using summon monster or summon nature's ally), but instead taking the descriptor of the spell - rather than that of the caster - as the totality of the alignment (hence the [evil] descriptor creates a NE undead).
Absolutely no idea if this is what the devs intended, but at least it makes sense to me.
Page 184 of the core rules reads:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged WEAPON at a target....
I don't consider a ranged spell, like Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc... a WEAPON. They are spells and subject to different rules.
If Paizo wanted all ranged attacks to be considered under this rule they would have used the phrase:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you MAKE a ranged ATTACK at a target...
Please give their writers credit for passing basic English in school.
Likewise the attack is PART of the casting, so if one casts defensively with success foes do not get an Op Shot on them.
This is all subject, of course, or GM interpertation... Until Paizo makes an official ruling on it. Each GM must run it the way he/she feels it best for their own campaign.
Page 184 of the core rules reads:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged WEAPON at a target....I don't consider a ranged spell, like Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc... a WEAPON. They are spells and subject to different rules.
If Paizo wanted all ranged attacks to be considered under this rule they would have used the phrase:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you MAKE a ranged ATTACK at a target...Please give their writers credit for passing basic English in school.
Likewise the attack is PART of the casting, so if one casts defensively with success foes do not get an Op Shot on them.
This is all subject, of course, or GM interpertation... Until Paizo makes an official ruling on it. Each GM must run it the way he/she feels it best for their own campaign.
If you look at weapon focus...
"Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat."
It is obvious Ray is a type of ranged weapon.
Page 184 of the core rules reads:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged WEAPON at a target....I don't consider a ranged spell, like Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc... a WEAPON. They are spells and subject to different rules.
If Paizo wanted all ranged attacks to be considered under this rule they would have used the phrase:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you MAKE a ranged ATTACK at a target...Please give their writers credit for passing basic English in school.
Likewise the attack is PART of the casting, so if one casts defensively with success foes do not get an Op Shot on them.
This is all subject, of course, or GM interpertation... Until Paizo makes an official ruling on it. Each GM must run it the way he/she feels it best for their own campaign.
Paizo has had an official ruling on it since last year:
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events.
(Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.
This answer originally appeared in the 9/11/12 Paizo blog.
Emphasis mine. Any spell that requires a roll to hit as a ranged touch attack is considered a ranged attack, for the purposes of feats, game mechanics, etc. Meaning a caster focused on rays is going to want the same basic feats that an archer would want.
Page 184 of the core rules reads:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged WEAPON at a target....I don't consider a ranged spell, like Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, etc... a WEAPON. They are spells and subject to different rules.
If Paizo wanted all ranged attacks to be considered under this rule they would have used the phrase:
Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you MAKE a ranged ATTACK at a target...Please give their writers credit for passing basic English in school.
Likewise the attack is PART of the casting, so if one casts defensively with success foes do not get an Op Shot on them.
This is all subject, of course, or GM interpertation... Until Paizo makes an official ruling on it. Each GM must run it the way he/she feels it best for their own campaign.
Xaratherus already showed where you are not correct here, but before you post you should at least read the previous posts. If you did, you will see where I quoted from the PRD (not even an FAQ) where it shows that your statement "the attack is PART of the casting, so if one casts defensively with success foes do not get an Op Shot on them" is proven 100% wrong.
Again from the PRD (or page 186 if you like hard copy references) it says:
"Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn."
That seems pretty straight forward to me. So, no, there is no interpretation other than that is what the rules says. If you want to run it differently then you may but that is not the rule.
Interesting... I wrote this post 6 months ago when I was just switching over to Pathfinder. I found the answer to my question a week of so later while studying the Core Rulebook and never returned to this post.
While surfing the forums it popped up and I was surprised to see it got some answers. Some of you went to great lengths to try and justify your answer when it is plain on page 214.
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, etc, etc...
Thanks for the answers anyway, next time just reply "Look on page 214, Newb!"