Improved Familiar: what's with the initiative and skills?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Sooo... I'd like to use an improved familiar to have it use a wand on me. Here are my questions:

a) which initiative does it use? Say I take an Quasit (Init + 6). Does it use mine (+13) or does it use it's own? Which ways are there to improve his init?

b) what's the bonus to use magic device he get's? say I have 11 skill ranks, 20 Intelligence and it's a class skill. It has an Int of 11 and use magic device is not one of his skills.


B) he uses your ranks only, but his own stat (Cha for UMD) and only gets the +3 if its a skill for him, not you.


A) uses its own initiative, though most dm's just gloss that over and let master and familiar go on the same turn.


a/ It depends on how your GM play familiars. At my table, usually, familiars play at the initiative of their master.

b/ Just like the tiny golem said ...

Dark Archive

are there ways to improve either?


Initiative and UMD? There are magic items to do either. Ioun stones stand out as cheap and quick. Cracked Dusty Rose and cracked Pink and Green sphere.

Dark Archive

Sooo... I figure an Lyrakien (Azata) with 2 Ioun Stones giving Init +9 and Cha 20 (+1 to Cha checks) is the best I can get for starters?


Quickest two I know of off the top of my head. Outside of raw their are prices for homebrew magic items, but thats GM territory.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
B) he uses your ranks only, but his own stat (Cha for UMD) and only gets the +3 if its a skill for him, not you.

Are you sure about that? You get a +3 bonus to your class skill when you invest a point, not a +3 bonus to the skill checks. So once you put a point in UMD, you have four skill ranks in that skill. And since Familiars can use your skill ranks, they should also benefit from your class skill bonus.


VRMH wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
B) he uses your ranks only, but his own stat (Cha for UMD) and only gets the +3 if its a skill for him, not you.
Are you sure about that? You get a +3 bonus to your class skill when you invest a point, not a +3 bonus to the skill checks. So once you put a point in UMD, you have four skill ranks in that skill. And since Familiars can use your skill ranks, they should also benefit from your class skill bonus.

It works that way from my understanding, especially when I see animal archives archetypes. Class skill ranks are wierd?


VRMH wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
B) he uses your ranks only, but his own stat (Cha for UMD) and only gets the +3 if its a skill for him, not you.
Are you sure about that? You get a +3 bonus to your class skill when you invest a point, not a +3 bonus to the skill checks. So once you put a point in UMD, you have four skill ranks in that skill. And since Familiars can use your skill ranks, they should also benefit from your class skill bonus.

I don't think that untyped bonus actually counts as ranks. If it did, PrC entry just got a whole lot faster.


Sitri wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
B) he uses your ranks only, but his own stat (Cha for UMD) and only gets the +3 if its a skill for him, not you.
Are you sure about that? You get a +3 bonus to your class skill when you invest a point, not a +3 bonus to the skill checks. So once you put a point in UMD, you have four skill ranks in that skill. And since Familiars can use your skill ranks, they should also benefit from your class skill bonus.
I don't think that untyped bonus actually counts as ranks. If it did, PrC entry just got a whole lot faster.

Also one point in linguistics could give an Asimar or Tengu 8 languages!


Sitri wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
B) he uses your ranks only, but his own stat (Cha for UMD) and only gets the +3 if its a skill for him, not you.
Are you sure about that? You get a +3 bonus to your class skill when you invest a point, not a +3 bonus to the skill checks. So once you put a point in UMD, you have four skill ranks in that skill. And since Familiars can use your skill ranks, they should also benefit from your class skill bonus.
I don't think that untyped bonus actually counts as ranks. If it did, PrC entry just got a whole lot faster.

I'm relatively the +3 is just a bonus and not "ranks." Otherwise they'd be called that.


Quote:
Each skill rank grants a +1 bonus on checks made using that skill. When you make a skill check, you roll 1d20 and then add your ranks and the appropriate ability score modifier to the result of this check. If the skill you're using is a class skill (and you have invested ranks into that skill), you gain a +3 bonus on the check. If you are not trained in the skill (and if the skill may be used untrained), you may still attempt the skill, but you use only the bonus (or penalty) provided by the associated ability score modifier to modify the check. Skills can be further modified by a wide variety of sources—by your race, by a class ability, by equipment, by spell effects or magic items, and so on. See Table: Skill Check Bonuses for a summary of skill check bonuses.

It is a +3 bonus on checks, not +3 ranks. There is a big difference.

Dark Archive

Another question on improved familiar: The feat states I do have to be in one step of the alignment, but aside from farie dragon (Within one step of Chaotic Good) the familars always state a specific alignment.

Does that mean, the one step of only applies for Farie dragons or is that just bad written and (as an example) a chaotic neutral could take a Lyrakien (Azata) [Chaotic good] as well as a Quasit [Chaotic Evil] as improved familiar?


Just as a cleric of Asmodaeus can be Lawful Nuetral and a cleric of a Demon Lord can be Chaotic Neutral, one step is in any direction of the 9.

So no, its not badly written that a Chaotic Neutral could take either an Azata or a Quasit. He's probably not getting both though if thats what your asking.

Dark Archive

My question is the following:

The FEAT improved familiar says:
You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).

The Faerie Dragon says:
Faerie dragons sometimes ally with spellcasters, serving as curious, occasionally reckless, but always true familiars. An arcane spellcaster of at least 7th level with an alignment within 1 step of chaotic good who has the Improved Familiar feat may select a faerie dragon as a familiar.

which is fine according to the feat, that should be the rule.

However, the Azata says:
A chaotic good 7th-level spellcaster can gain a lyrakien as a familiar if she has the Improved Familiar feat.

RAW I would usually count the Azata as exception from the rule one step of, as it specifies a specific alignment, except, the faerie dragon is the only familiar, where the 1 step is written in the rule. So in this case, I take it as badly written, because basically all familiars can be chosen if one step on the alignment axis?


Doesn't say a Nuetral Good or Chaotic Nuetral character can't choose it... Huh, never noticed that before.

Shadow Lodge

The text of Improved Familiar trumps the flavor text of the familiars' bestiary listings. A wizard can take any familiar whose alignment is within one step of his own on each axis. So a LG wizard can take a LG, LN, NG, or N familiar, a CE wizard could take a CE, CN, NE, or N familiar, and a N wizard can take any improved familiar.


RE: Familiars and UMD

The Evolved Familiar feat will give your familiar +8 to UMD.

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