Flagbearer

[Nuku]

I'm asking here because I'd prefer the PFS answer and not the 'Well, I'd allow it!' or 'Not in my game!' answer.

The flag used with this feat is literally just a flag, with no pole or anything else attached to it. Would putting the flag at the end of something you're not stabbing violently into people, like a rod, valid, presuming you're still holding it up with a hand and not propping it up in your backpack?

[Nuku]

A soft bump. Any ideas on this?

[Tony Lindman]

ISWG, p286 wrote:

Flagbearer (Combat)

When brandishing a flag adorned with the standard of an organization you owe allegiance to, you inspire nearby members of the same allegiance.
Prerequisites: Cha 15.
Benefit: As long as you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag (see page 293), members of that allegiance within 30 feet who can see the flag (including yourself ) gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws against fear and charm effects. You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus. If the standard is taken by the enemy or destroyed, this bonus becomes a penalty, affecting all creatures that the bonus previously affected for 1 hour (or until you reclaim the lost flag).

The line I bolded I think is the key: you must use one hand to hold the banner. As long as you are devoting one hand to this, I see no reason not to allow it to be on a rod. In fact, I'd think it would work better that way - a loose flag is very hard to see and identify.

[Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome]

since the benefit is from the flag and not what it is attached to, I'm assuming that what you want is fine.

[Sammy T]

I believe the standard assumption is that the flag is already on a pole or stick as to be easily displayed above the fray.

[Nuku]

Awesome, ok. I figured it would just make sense to prop that baby on a rod instead of flapping it around wildly.

Thanks kindly.

[morbon]

So, why was it necessary to designate that the flag be held in 1 hand. Why not just place it on a pole and strap it to one's back, like people did in real life? Why not do like Cavaliers and stick it on their mount? Can it be used like a Cavalier's Banner ability, or with said ability? It seems like such a good buff feat that has silly restrictions written in for it.

[RtrnofdMax]

Just wait until the upgraded versions of the flag require both of your hands.

[Nuku]

There are upgrades? Did I miss it?

[Jeffrey Fox]

Nuku wrote:

Awesome, ok. I figured it would just make sense to prop that baby on a rod instead of flapping it around wildly.

Thanks kindly.

I'm pretty sure it is meant to flap around wildly. Flags are meant to be raised above the battle field in order for people to see it and rally to it. Having it held down like that kinda defeats it's purpose.

But by RAW your fine.

[Sammy T]

morbon wrote:

So, why was it necessary to designate that the flag be held in 1 hand. Why not just place it on a pole and strap it to one's back, like people did in real life? Why not do like Cavaliers and stick it on their mount? Can it be used like a Cavalier's Banner ability, or with said ability? It seems like such a good buff feat that has silly restrictions written in for it.

Because it's a permanent aura bonus granted to an unlimited number of allies within a 30' radius. Giving up the use of one hand is more than a fair trade.

[Sammy T]

Nuku wrote:

There are upgrades? Did I miss it?

The Banner of the Ancient Kings

[Nuku]

Jeffrey Fox wrote:

Nuku wrote:

Awesome, ok. I figured it would just make sense to prop that baby on a rod instead of flapping it around wildly.

Thanks kindly.

I'm pretty sure it is meant to flap around wildly. Flags are meant to be raised above the battle field in order for people to see it and rally to it. Having it held down like that kinda defeats it's purpose.

But by RAW your fine.

Oh, no doubt it should be waved, I just meant not me holding the edge of the flag like an idiot. The mental image is hilarious.

[Nuku]

That banner, it is all kinds of sexy.

Looking it over, it appears it could operate as an upgraded flag one handed, but doing so forfeits the initiative bonus and mind control saves. Though since you can switch one-hand two-hand during your turn without issue, hmm...

Thanks for pointing that out.

[RtrnofdMax]

Just clarify with your DM how they handle the action of going from one-handing to two-handing a weapon and vice versa. I think you can likely assume most would consider it a trivial action, up until you start abusing it.

Personally, I would have an issue with you dropping a weapon or wand and moving your 2nd hand back to the haft of the pole or longspear before you're hit with a spell (especially a mind-affecting one).

Oh, and I also read it as you have to have both hands on the pole/spear to get the extra saves. I know someone could dissect the paragraph and say no, since the sentence doesn't start with "in addition" like it does for the saves, but the bonus to saves and the extra saves are only for mind-affecting effects, so I would say the two are linked.

Lastly, it's 18k, so it's going to take some planning and lots of leveling to get. I got it just as I leveled to 9 and it's tehsex.

[Nuku]

Oh, if I was holding a wand and got fried, I'd expect to be treated as one handed. You can't drop things out of turn, so far I know?

[Yiroep]

Nope, you can't. Speaking is the only free action explicitly called out that you can out of your turn, although switching hands is never really explained anywhere. I usually just treat it as a free action you can do on your turn.

Linkage.

[nosig]

well... burning disarm sort of let's you drop something on someone elses turn. The judges I've played with give you the option of dropping the iteam (and you get a save) or not (and no save, just take the damage).

[Yiroep]

But then again, command doesn't make the person drop it until their turn. :p

[Iammars]

FAQ

Quote:

Two-Handed Weapons: What kind of action is it to remove your hand from a two-handed weapon or re-grab it with both hands?

Both are free actions. For example, a wizard wielding a quarterstaff can let go of the weapon with one hand as a free action, cast a spell as a standard action, and grasp the weapon again with that hand as a free action; this means the wizard is still able to make attacks of opportunity with the weapon (which requires using two hands).

As with any free action, the GM may decide a reasonable limit to how many times per round you can release and re-grasp the weapon (one release and re-grasp per round is fair).

—Pathfinder Design Team, 03/01/13

While the flag isn't a weapon, I don't see why this same ruling wouldn't also apply.

[BigNorseWolf]

If you have the feat that lets you threaten an area with a bow, you can draw more arrows as a free action.

Drop an item (burning disarm)

Probably a wolf using trip or a critter with grab making an AOO or a creature.

[MaartenDF]

I'm planning to build a Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) / Bard (Detective) combo. He'll be a sort of film noir style character.

Of all the gin joints in all the towns in Golarion, she walks into mine...

That kind of thing.

Would you allow this guy to use the Flagbearer feat with, say, a police badge, instead of a flag? (I guess it would be a Pathfinder badge/wayfinder, whatever)

It's something cosmetic, and I would still be holding it in my hand.

I'm not sure if this is skirting the edges of RAW too much.

[PrinceRaven]

One thing I don't understand is when people insist that the feat doesn't grant any bonuses if the flag is held in two hands. It isn't physically possible to hold something in two hands without holding it in one.

[Paz]

MaartenDF wrote:

I'm planning to build a Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) / Bard (Detective) combo. He'll be a sort of film noir style character.

Of all the gin joints in all the towns in Golarion, she walks into mine...

That kind of thing.

Would you allow this guy to use the Flagbearer feat with, say, a police badge, instead of a flag? (I guess it would be a Pathfinder badge/wayfinder, whatever)

It's something cosmetic, and I would still be holding it in my hand.

I'm not sure if this is skirting the edges of RAW too much.

I'm pretty sure that would fall foul of the reskinning rules, and wouldn't be allowed, unfortunately.