for the purposes of tying someone up, can you take 20 on your CMB check?
Taking 10 and Taking 20 apply to skill checks and ability checks.
However, it's not really needed. If the target was pinned, and the person pinning the target succeeded at maintaining the grapple, he could choose the 'Tie Up' option (rather than damage, move, or pin).
The DC to escape has nothing to do with the grapple check you made to maintain, it's a set DC based on your CMB.
-edit- Ah, I see the problem. CMB is Combat Maneuver Bonus, this isn't the same as the result of a combat maneuver check. (A combat maneuver check is 1d20 + CMB + Misc)
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In last night's game one of the PCs was hit with a dominate person. We managed to subdue her, but we were very low on resources to the point where we couldn't bring anything to bear that would free her from the control she was under.
Given that, we decided to tie her up for the time being. Since she was pinned at the time, one of the group decided that since she couldn't really resist, he was going to take 20 on his CMB check, since the normal DC for Escape Artist is 20 + the CMB of whomever is tying the rope.
I wasn't sure this was correct, since a CMB is an attack roll and you can't take 20 (or 10, for that matter) on those. However, the group felt that this made narrative sense, since you can keep trying and re-trying your knots until you've tied them tightly and securely.
I'm still not sure I agree with that interpretation though, so I'm asking everyone here: for the purposes of tying someone up, can you take 20 on your CMB check?
Besides the rule that literally disallows taking 20 on CMB checks, I would support it with the idea that you don't really know the strength of your knots until they are tested by someone trying to defeat them. If you really, really, really want to securely tie someone, I would suggest investing in masterwork manacles (DC 35) plus a rope (20+CMB) and someone to watch the captive (Escape Artist takes a whole minute)
Besides the rule that literally disallows taking 20 on CMB checks, I would support it with the idea that you don't really know the strength of your knots until they are tested by someone trying to defeat them. If you really, really, really want to securely tie someone, I would suggest investing in masterwork manacles (DC 35) plus a rope (20+CMB) and someone to watch the captive (Escape Artist takes a whole minute)
This. You might think you've tied them up securely, but you will never know for sure until they try to escape.
Going over it again, I'm now wondering if it's not a check at all. You declare that you're tying up the helpless individual, and the DC is automatically set to 20 + your CMB; the only check that's made is the escapee, who uses Escape Artist against that DC when they want to try and slip out.
Is that more correct?
Yes.
We were operating under the assumption that, regardless of grappling, tying someone up (once they're helpless) entails some sort of CMB check, with the question being if you had to roll the d20, or could take 20.
You cannot take 20 on the combat maneuver check to maintain a grapple.
If that combat maneuver check to maintain a grapple is successful, you can use the Tie Up option.
The DC to escape once tied up has no relation to the result of that combat maneuver check, so long as it was a success.
Going over it again, I'm now wondering if it's not a check at all. You declare that you're tying up the helpless individual, and the DC is automatically set to 20 + your CMB; the only check that's made is the escapee, who uses Escape Artist against that DC when they want to try and slip out.
Is that more correct?
You still have to have maintained the grapple in order to Tie Up. A natural 1 automatically fails, even if the target is pinned and helpless.
The DC to escape being tied up doesn't depend on the combat maneuver check, just the combat maneuver bonus of whoever did it.