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OK,I have a character (Markel) that is using gravity bow and was looking into using Enlarge Person to take the damage up another step.
That spell says all thrown and projectiles do regular damage.
Then I look at Reduce person. Thrown weapons do regular damage, but projectile weapons "...deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them" in parentheticals.
I wonder if this is an editing snafu or something that was forgotten for Enlarge Person.
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It's written right in the spell: "Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size."
In fact, I've always thought Reduce Person was better than Enlarge person for reasons such as this. A medium creature wielding a Longbow gets shrunk, gets +1 to hit because of size, +1 to hit because of increased Dex, but still does the same damage (except of course if the Longbow is composite with a Str rating).
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The problem is that the two spells say different things.
Enlarge has projectiles doing damage at the original size. (Large bow doing Medium damge)
Reduce has projectiles doing damage at the reduced size. (Small bow doing Small damage)
Reduce only has Thrown weapons change to the original size. (Small Dagger doing Medium damage)
I just need to know if these differences where on purpose or if Enlarge Person didn't get adjusted in the move between 3.5 and Pathfinder.
thaX, this has been a problem since PF launched, I noticed it over two years ago and actually got a reply from Jason Bulmahn on page 3 that sadly didn't help at all.
This is a problem unique to PF. In 3E, the Enlarge and Reduce spells and other sizing effects were 100% consistent. Projectile damage was based on launcher size, and thus anything that enlarged you made damage increase (often at the expense of attack bonus between size and dex penalties, though), and anything that reduced your size made damage decrease (often granting a decent attack bonus for size and dex, though).
I think this issue is the reason paizo made the gravity bow spell. Rather than fix the actual contradiction, they just made a new spell for archers.
The thread I linked has a lot of info and arguments for and against the PF changes. Shame it was never fixed, but hey...at least paizo did create that adjustable strength bow enhancement I asked for. That's something!
It's because in reduce person it says that projectiles do damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them: small bow does small bow damage
Where as enlarge says that it does damage as normal size (medium)...if projectiles are supposed to deal damage based off the size of the weapon firing then a large bow should do large bow damage not medium bow damage
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Reduce Person would have a longbow doing Sm damage (1d6 I believe) while Enlarge Person would keep a longbow doing Med damage (the regular 1D8) even though the bow is enlarged with the caster.
I think the confusion is because two different passages was used for the spells when Pathfinder shortened the spell descriptions that were in 3.5. One was near the end denoting the difference between thrown and projectiles in Reduce Person while the Enlarge Person has a later passage without the parenthetical included for the projectiles using the new size damage instead of the normal damage if one was not effected by the spell.
basically, it is the explanation of items leaving one's person returning to normal that got truncated into a shorter description. The explanation had to go into thrown and projectile weapons, which is different in Pathfinder between the two spells.
Allow me to break it down for you.
Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).
Ok, cool! Projectile weapons will deal less damage, because even though the arrow is growing back to its normal (medium) size after it shoots from the bow, the bow is small, and that is what counts.
Simple enough. So, logically, if it is the size of the weapon that fires the projectile that matters, then clearly enlarge person, which makes my bow size large, will cause the arrows to deal more damage, even though they shrink back to medium size after being released.
I'm sure that's what Enlarge Person will say!
Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.
O_O
WHAAAAAAAA?!
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.
...Does this explain it clearly to you?
That's not the part we are talking about Nefreet its
This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them).
Where as...
This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage.
If a reduce longbow does reduced damage because the damage is "based on the size of the weapon that fired them", then why doesn't a longbow shot by someone enlarged do MORE damage since the bow is bigger?
I think that maybe they missed changing the wording from both of those, my GM sees it that way and rules that if someone is enlarged then they do large bow damage, but for players in PFS it would be nice for them to get an errata or FAQ
Does that explain the issue better for you Nefreet :)
Ninja'd: I'm watching you StreamoftheSky
lolz why cant this be a diffrence in the spell?
maybe they work difrently ;)
as long as each spel on its own is clear there is no FAQ needed you could just say each spell works diffrently!
I don't think that is so very strange.
While I know that PF is no real world simulator you could see it this way:
If you shoot an arrow you confer it a certain energy and speed. Now if you change the arrow's size and mass in flight, what happens?
If you shrink the arrow it retains its speed but its mass is reduced. As speed and mass are needed to calculate the mass that means the arrow's energy is reduced. As is its damage potential.
If you enlarge an arrow mid flight its mass increases but the energy remains the same. So the arrow gets bigger but slower. But that doesn't matter because in the end its energy remains the same. And it is the energy that deals the damage, in a way.
you could say the bigger bow fires the arow faster and with more mass doesnt slow down as much when it reduces size it gains less drag and can continue on the higher speed of the larger bow.
but its not logical its MAGIC!!
Yeah, I noticed this inconsistency two years ago as well. FAQ'd. I urge others to do the same.