Melee Touch "Attacks" and Fainting, Sneak Attacks, and Free touch attacks.

[Vincent The Dark]

1. Does a melee touch attack count as a melee attack for all purposes, even flanking and fainting?
2. Does a sneak attack trigger in those scenarios?
3. Is it true that you only get one free attempt to touch an opponent after you cast a touch spell? I was under the assumption that you get unlimited tries, since the charge does not dissipate.

Thank you in advance.

[Thomas Long 175]

1. Yes a melee touch attack is a melee attack.
2. Yes.
3. The first attempt is free. All others are still touch attacks but requires attack actions, such as the regular or full attack. The charge is held until you touch another living thing (it doesn't matter if you intend to discharge it so careful with bumping people)

[Czrenobog]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

1. Does a melee touch attack count as a melee attack for all purposes, even flanking and fainting?

2. Does a sneak attack trigger in those scenarios?
3. Is it true that you only get one free attempt to touch an opponent after you cast a touch spell? I was under the assumption that you get unlimited tries, since the charge does not dissipate.

Thank you in advance.

/swoon

I think the word you're looking for is feinting.

[SlimGauge]

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

The charge is held until you touch another living thing (it doesn't matter if you intend to discharge it so careful with bumping people)

Non-living targets (and non-targets in the case of unintentional discharges) will also discharge a held touch spell. Otherwise you couldn't target undead or constructs.

[Thomas Long 175]

SlimGauge wrote:

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

The charge is held until you touch another living thing (it doesn't matter if you intend to discharge it so careful with bumping people)

Non-living targets (and non-targets in the case of unintentional discharges) will also discharge a held touch spell. Otherwise you couldn't target undead or constructs.

Yeah but I left that out because it gets into a confusing area. You touch the floor while standing there. You're touching your clothes while wearing them. You're touching your backpack, etc... It basically would make all touch spells unusable unless you played a wizard who specialized in making touch attacks while floating around nude.

Edit: Come to think of it, that might be fun. Thanks for the idea.

[Kazaan]

You get one free touch in the round you cast because casting the spell is a standard action and, to allow you to deliver it in the same round you cast, the first attempt had to be made a free action. If you choose to hold the charge or you miss that first attempt, subsequent attempts have to be made as non-free melee touch attacks (ie, via standard attack action, AoO, etc). You can try as many times so long as you hold the charge, but only the first round's attempt is given as a Free Action.

[Vincent The Dark]

OK, thank you!
Follow up. Can the magus target his melee touch attack with his arcane pool ability?

Thanks.

[Vincent The Dark]

Also, maybe for another topic, but...

Does a ranged touch attack count as a ranged attack and as such, does it trigger a sneak attack? (given a flat-footed opponent)

Besides that, can a Kirin Strike be added to a melee or ranged touch attack? (cause if it can, bells are ringing in my head lol)

[Thomas Long 175]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

Also, maybe for another topic, but...

Does a ranged touch attack count as a ranged attack and as such, does it trigger a sneak attack? (given a flat-footed opponent)

Besides that, can a Kirin Strike be added to a melee or ranged touch attack? (cause if it can, bells are ringing in my head lol)

1. Yes. As long as an attack roll is required, unless an attack does not specifically say no precision damage, then you get sneak attack when the requirements of sneak attack are met.

2. Yes. Kirin Strike does not rule out touch attacks.

Edit: Not sure on the arcane pool. It says with a weapon you are holding so I'd be inclined to say no. It'd be equivalent to saying an unarmed strike is a weapon you are holding.

[Vincent The Dark]

Awesome! Thank you!

[Vincent The Dark]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

OK, thank you!

Follow up. Can the magus target his melee touch attack with his arcane pool ability?

Thanks.

Anybody has an idea about this?

[Vincent The Dark]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/touch-of-fatigue

What would you say about Touch of Fatigue. First off, it seems there shouldn't be a Fort. Save. But the question is, would a ranged (touch) attack deal Sneak Attack damage if it does not deal damage? And would it therefore do the same energy type damage as the spell?

I just remember the big deal about being an Arcane Trickster is that you get to add your sneak to your spells that catch opponents flat-footed. As if that wasn't the case. Ugh. This blows everything back in the air.

[Vincent The Dark]

It feels like that "ability" just takes away something that you have, just to give it to you right back and act like it's a big deal. : P

[Penge]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

Vincent The Dark wrote:

OK, thank you!

Follow up. Can the magus target his melee touch attack with his arcane pool ability?

Thanks.

Anybody has an idea about this?

Are you talking about the "pool strike" ability? If so you just treat it like any other charge you gain from a spell

[Vincent The Dark]

Penge wrote:

Anybody has an idea about this? Are you talking about the "pool strike" ability? If so you just treat it like any other charge you gain from a spell

Actually, I meant the enhancement bonus under the description of arcane pool. The one that makes it magical/masterwork and all that. The one that the unarmed strike can benefit from. Then again, I guess the touch attack isn't a weapon so...

And I guess that is the unstated part of the sneak attack that needs to be mentioned more than the weapon damage type.
I sure hope kirin strike does not need to be a weapon attack which could make sense, given the idea behind it is not based on the ability of the opponent to avoid the "attack".

[pH unbalanced]

Vincent The Dark wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/touch-of-fatigue

What would you say about Touch of Fatigue. First off, it seems there shouldn't be a Fort. Save. But the question is, would a ranged (touch) attack deal Sneak Attack damage if it does not deal damage? And would it therefore do the same energy type damage as the spell?

I just remember the big deal about being an Arcane Trickster is that you get to add your sneak to your spells that catch opponents flat-footed. As if that wasn't the case. Ugh. This blows everything back in the air.

The difference with the Arcane Trickster ability is that it allows you to deal Sneak Attack damage for *any* spell that deals damage, whether there was an attack roll or not. So an Arcane Trickster can effectively Sneak Attack with a Magic Missle or Fireball, which no one else can do.

[Vincent The Dark]

pH unbalanced wrote:

Vincent The Dark wrote:

The difference with the Arcane Trickster ability is that it allows you to deal Sneak Attack damage for *any* spell that deals damage, whether there was an attack roll or not. So an Arcane Trickster can effectively Sneak Attack with a Magic Missle or Fireball, which no one else can do.

So, the consensus is that only spells that do damage CAN sneak attack as well, for the energy type of the spell? That would be great!

[Kazaan]

From what I heard, back in 3.5, if you did an attack that dealt stat drain but no physical damage, you could add on a "negative energy" sneak attack with it. But there's no such contingency with PF that I know of so, by default, you can only sneak attack on a spell that does HP damage and has an attack roll.