Using Monk's Styles with Natural Attacks.

[Jack Brightbuilder]

Hi there,
I'm Playing a Monk/Synthesist and I have the Snake and Janni Styles, to get the AoO based on the Miss Chance and the +4 for trip attempt.
I also have the trip evolution with the bite attack, in conjunction with Improved Trip and Gr. Trip to get +8 bonus with the maneuver.

I would like to know, if I have to take Feral Combat Training (bite) to use the bite or not at the moment to make the attack of opportunity and tripping him.

Let me make the sequence of the round.
1 - Enemy try to hit me,
2 - Fail (of course),
3 - AoO from me (Snake Style),
4 - Bite as the unarmed strike AoO,
As hitted with the Bite, trigger Janni Tempest for the +4 on trip attempt.
5 - Trip attempt Successful - AoO from Greater Trip
6 - AoO from Vicious Stomp
7 - Inmediate Action to make another attack from Snake Fang (Bite I guess)

Now, I would like to know if I can make that routine or not, as if in 5&6 steps, I can use the Claw Attack to hit the enemy to boost the damage thanks to the rend evolution.

Thanks in Advance

[Dabbler]

Quote:

Feral Combat Training (Combat)

You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Bolded sections mine. And also:

Quote:

Snake Fang (Combat)

You can unleash attacks against an opponent that has dropped its guard.
Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike, Snake Sidewind, Snake Style, Acrobatics 6 ranks, Sense Motive 9 ranks.
Benefit: While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent.

Again, bold text emphasis mine.

So with Feral Combat Training you can gain feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a a prerequisite, and you can apply effects that would augment an unarmed strike to your natural attack. You can also use the natural attack as part of a flurry of blows. So you do not specifically treat your bite attack as an unarmed strike in all circumstances, merely those specified.

Snake style specifically allows an unarmed strike (and only an unarmed strike) as the attack of opportunity should an enemy attack and miss you in combat. The question is, does this augment an unarmed strike? By the dictionary, augment means: "to make larger; enlarge in size, number, strength, or extent; increase."

So something like Elemental Fist that grants an immediate bonus or benefit, is an augmentation. Snake Style does not do that; it does not enhance or change unarmed strikes in any way, it merely permits an unarmed strikes as an attack of opportunity under special circumstances.

So if I was presented with this as a DM, I would have to rule no, you can't make your attacks of opportunity with Snake Fang as anything but unarmed strikes - no bites allowed.

[Seranov]

Well, the part where is says "you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite" would likely allow you to use Feral Combat Training (Bite) to make that AoO with a Bite attack if the enemy misses you while you are using Snake Style.

It specifically breaks up the statement, suggesting that it either has to have IUS OR augments unarmed strikes, and Snake Style definitely meets the first criteria of Feral Combat Training as it has Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq. This should allow you to use a Bite attack AS IF it were a normal unarmed strike.

[Kazaan]

Note, however, that Feral Combat Training only applies to a specific natural attack which you choose when you take the feat. It also isn't a "repeatable" feat so you only get to qualify a single natural attack (ie. you can't take it multiple times for different natural attacks each time). Other than that, Seranov is correct, Snake Fang has IUS as a prereq so anything that Snake Fang and its subsequent style abilities can do can be done with a FCT Natural Attack.

[Dabbler]

Seranov wrote:

Well, the part where is says "you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite" would likely allow you to use Feral Combat Training (Bite) to make that AoO with a Bite attack if the enemy misses you while you are using Snake Style.

It specifically breaks up the statement, suggesting that it either has to have IUS OR augments unarmed strikes, and Snake Style definitely meets the first criteria of Feral Combat Training as it has Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq. This should allow you to use a Bite attack AS IF it were a normal unarmed strike.

Ah, I follow your interpretation of the wording. I read it as being able to use Feral Combat Training instead of Improved Unarmed Strike for the prerequisites. But also "you can apply the effects" allows that the effect applies to the natural attack in question as well.

I'm still not sure that would technically qualify with Snake Style, simply because it uses unarmed strikes in a very different way, but if iut makes the build work for fun, what the hell.

[Kazaan]

Another example; Vicious Stomp. It also has IUS as a prereq so you could opt to make your Unarmed Strike AoO with, say, your Bite attack if you had FCT (Bite).

[Jack Brightbuilder]

Thanks to Every one.
Now i'm planning something really Powerful, cuz we will be 3 players in the Abyss...