Augment Summoning work for non-summoner spell like abilities?


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like the Oracle of Winter "servant of winter" spell like ability to summon ice elementals. if the character has Augment Summoning, would it work with this ability? or only with Summon Monster spells cast?


It only works on actual "cast" spells. So no SLAs, no SUs, arguably not even Wands or Scrolls. Only an actual spell that's actually cast.

Scarab Sages

Except augment summoning/superior summoning do work on the summoner SLAs, establishing a strong precedent.

Jason Bulmahn

Quote:

Zurai is correct here folks. No need to argue. Augment Summoning does apply to the SLA.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

There is also this from Owen K. C. Stephens

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There is a distinction here, and it's subtle, but important. When you add a metamagic feat to a spell-like ability, you end up having to use a spell-like slot one or more levels higher. Since there is no such thing as a spell-like slot, you can't use your metamagic enhanced spell-like ability. (If you add metamagic feats with a +0 level modifier from some other source, they'd work fine with spell-like abilities).

Augment Summoning, however, along with Spell Focus, Spell Penetration and the greater versions of same, has no need for a spell-like slot to function. Thus they work just fine with spell-like abilities in addition to spells.

Given those two quotes, I would say yes, augment summoning works with the witch SLA.


This is what I'm trying to figure out here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p78i?When-an-ability-says-Cast-is-it-referring -to#1

I'm on a phone or I'd linkify it.

My gut reaction is that it will only work on the summoners SLA, since everything else points towards 'no'.

Scarab Sages

The second quote addresses the more general application.

While not a rules clarification, Owens is deeply involved in the rules and generally understands why things work in a particular way.


There's this in the FAQ:

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Items as Spells: Does using a potion, scroll, staff, or wand count as "casting a spell" for purposes of feats and special abilities like Augment Summoning, Spell Focus, an evoker's ability to do extra damage with evocation spells, bloodline abilities, and so on?

No. Unless they specifically state otherwise, feats and abilities that modify spells you cast only affect actual spellcasting, not using magic items that emulate spellcasting or work like spellcasting.

(Emphasis mine.) Yes, I know the question is about items, but the answer is pretty clear about "actual spellcasting".


Linkified my own thread.

Artanthos, Owen is my personal d20 idol and he is the only person who I will nearly blindly follow as his grasp of the rules is just that good.

However, below that post he mentions that he's not 100% sure on his interpretation.

And then there's this by Sean:

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The absolutely correct answer is "spell-like abilities are not spells, and therefore do not count as spells for anything that requires actual spellcasting."

Now, Augment Summoning says that "Each creature you conjure with any summon spell" gets super awesome. Since the SLA is not a spell (and doesn't count as a spell for things that require spells), non-summoner SLAs won't be affected by that.

A possible explanation for why the summoner's SLA is different is the following lines from the SLA:

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These summon spells are considered to be part of his spell list for the purposes of spell trigger and spell completion items. In addition, he can expend uses of this ability to fufill the construction requirements of any magic item he creates, so long as he can use this ability to cast the required spell.
Given this FAQ:
Quote:

Spell-Like Abilities as Spells: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as having that spell on its spell list for the purpose of activating spell completion or spell trigger items?

No. A spell-like ability is not a spell, having a spell-like ability is not part of a class's spell list, and therefore doesn't give the creature the ability to activate spell completion or spell trigger items.

—Sean K Reynolds, 08/22/11

then it's clear that the summoner's SLA is a bit of a special case, so that particular one may actually count as a spell.

But, once again, this is my post trying to get to the bottom of the distinction between SLAs and spells. I'd greatly appreciate it if people would hit the FAQ button on those various questions. :)

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