I have done some research to try and answer my own question (and that of my players) but to no avail. We are starting a dwarf campaign and one of the members of the party is going to be running a Guntank with a blunderbuss. He has asked in preparation of the start of this ongoing campaign the following questions that I do not have an answer to:
1) If a blunderbuss with the conical attack is employed against a wizard with mirror images up, does it destroy all the images if the attack roll against the images hits an AC 10? Or does it not affect them at all and the player would have but one attack and that would be against the wizard?
2) If the PC's encounter a swarm of spiders and the Guntank shoots his aoe conical attack into the swarm, does it damage the swarm on a successful hit? This is confusing to me because the shot is an area affect but it also includes an attack roll with a physical weapon. Normally physical weapons don't do damage to a swarm but its an aoe, so it is not a clear cut decision on my part.
An official ruling would be awesome! We start our yearly 5 day gaming session next week and could really use some assistance before then. Thank you in advance for your advice in handling this.
1) AOEs bypass the mirror image. They don't destroy them, but hit the wizard directly. It interacts with mirror image the same way a fireball would.
2) I imagine it would be ineffective against swarms of fine creatures. Against swarms of diminutive creatures (like rats), it would deal normal damage: (+50% for area of effect -50% for diminutive swarm).
1) AOEs bypass the mirror image. They don't destroy them, but hit the wizard directly. It interacts with mirror image the same way a fireball would.
2) I imagine it would be ineffective against swarms of fine creatures. Against swarms of diminutive creatures (like rats), it would deal normal damage: (+50% for area of effect -50% for diminutive swarm).
+1
1) AOEs bypass the mirror image. They don't destroy them, but hit the wizard directly. It interacts with mirror image the same way a fireball would.
2) I imagine it would be ineffective against swarms of fine creatures. Against swarms of diminutive creatures (like rats), it would deal normal damage: (+50% for area of effect -50% for diminutive swarm).
that sounds pretty good, where do those particular rules appear, particualry the rules on swarms
In the Bestiary
Swarm Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or less causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.
A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.
Swarms made up of Diminutive or Fine creatures are susceptible to high winds, such as those created by a gust of wind spell. For purposes of determining the effects of wind on a swarm, treat the swarm as a creature of the same size as its constituent creatures. A swarm rendered unconscious by means of nonlethal damage becomes disorganized and dispersed, and does not reform until its hit points exceed its nonlethal damage.
emphasis mine
1) AOEs bypass the mirror image. They don't destroy them, but hit the wizard directly. It interacts with mirror image the same way a fireball would.
2) I imagine it would be ineffective against swarms of fine creatures. Against swarms of diminutive creatures (like rats), it would deal normal damage: (+50% for area of effect -50% for diminutive swarm).
I think you mean tiny, not diminutive. Otherwise, correct.
So it seems, with this rule set that Quantum Steve shared with us, that dealing with swarms and the blunderbuss have been answered (at least to me).
One of the key points for me was one that isn't listed here and that is the clarification of the area affects. I found it on the pathfinder srd under swarm template:
"If the area attack does not allow a saving throw, the swarm takes double damage instead."
So I feel confident now in the ruling that Knight Magenta has made and shall follow it for our gaming sessions in regards to swarms.
I also agree with the statement of not destroying the figments of the mirror image, however the argument is that the blunderbuss is not a spell area of effect, so the rule, " Area spells affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments" doesn't apply to this situation. Any further discussion points on this? I am totally on the fence at this point (which is better than where I was before this discussion began).
|
1) AOEs bypass the mirror image. They don't destroy them, but hit the wizard directly. It interacts with mirror image the same way a fireball would.
2) I imagine it would be ineffective against swarms of fine creatures. Against swarms of diminutive creatures (like rats), it would deal normal damage: (+50% for area of effect -50% for diminutive swarm).
I think you mean tiny, not diminutive. Otherwise, correct.
Swarms of Tiny would tak 150% damage. Firearms are bashing as well as piercing. Bashing is not reduced on on Tiny swarms.
|
On a side note, both affects apply. so If you fire a blunderbuss against a swarm of tiny creatures it would take 150% damage (since guns do bludgeoning and piercing. If you were somehow attacking with an aoe piercing attack it would do 75% damage). If the dwarf with the blunderbuss were wearing a swarmbane clasp, he would do 150% damage to swarms of any size. Or he could carry around some alchemical dragon's breath cartridges.
RAW the blunderbuss would make one attack roll against the target of mirror image, since they roll against each creature in the area, and illusions are not creatures. Then, since it falls in the category of an attack and not area spell or an affect that doesn't require an attack roll, you would roll to see if it hit an image or the target. RAI however this makes no sense, I would treat it like an aoe spell.
When mirror image is cast, 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total) are created. These images remain in your space and move with you, mimicking your movements, sounds, and actions exactly. Whenever you are attacked or are the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, there is a possibility that the attack targets one of your images instead. If the attack is a hit, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. If it is a figment, the figment is destroyed. If the attack misses by 5 or less, one of your figments is destroyed by the near miss. Area spells affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells and effects that do not require an attack roll affect you normally and do not destroy any of your figments. Spells that require a touch attack are harmlessly discharged if used to destroy a figment.
The Mirror Image bit is actually in the Firearms section of UC.
Scatter Weapon Quality: A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. Cannons with the scatter weapon quality only fire grapeshot, unless their descriptions state otherwise. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.
So the scatter shot would bypass Mirror Image just like an AoE spell would.
One of the key points for me was one that isn't listed here and that is the clarification of the area affects. I found it on the pathfinder srd under swarm template:
"If the area attack does not allow a saving throw, the swarm takes double damage instead."
I'm assuming you mean this template
That's a 3rd party template, so the rules might be different than Pathfinder rules. If you're using that template, then those rules are correct, but if you're using a swarm from the Pathfinder Bestiary, then the rules I quoted are correct.
Thank you for all your comments, all is clear now and my life can continue. Pathfinder Community rocks!