Read ALL the words, silly!!!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Ok, a couple of things I just realized tonight, perusing the CRB...

1) When you have Two Weapon Fighting, you can drawn two weapons (which must be either light or one-handed) in the time you can draw one. Thus, if you have a +1 BAB, you can draw two weapons with a move... that would have helped me out a lot... 2 full levels drawing the weapons one at a time... sheesh.

2) Picking up an item provokes... as does retrieve a stored item... so, grabbing a potion in melee can provoke twice? Take that 5-foot step!

3) And, though I knew it, there it is on p183... using a SLA provokes! Explicitly.

4) And then, a clarification... a Rogue with minor magic rogue talent can take Arcane Strike? He can cast arcane spells!!! That seems interesting, but also has a little bit of a smell to it... maybe someone can confirm this one for me.

5) Ok, I think I have to check the Gunslinger listing on this, just to be sure... but it seems that Gunslingers won't be able to use Deadly Aim (at least not in the first range band), because " The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks" (PRD). This seems a little counter-intuitive, but I guess I can live with it (would be a balance issue, I assume).


Jack R Brown wrote:
5) Ok, I think I have to check the Gunslinger listing on this, just to be sure... but it seems that Gunslingers won't be able to use Deadly Aim (at least not in the first range band), because " The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks" (PRD). This seems a little counter-intuitive, but I guess I can live with it (would be a balance issue, I assume).

This is incorrect.

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Early Firearms: ...this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim...

The fact that it targets Touch AC does not make it a Touch Attack, even if in the first range increment. That's why it is specifically called out as not being a Touch Attack.

Edit: Also, I'm not so sure about your number 4. That would be really cool if you could, but it's an SLA, not an actual arcane spell. I'm not sure if SLA's have any Arcane/Divine distinction, nor whether they even count as being spells you can cast... I'm not sure, but I don't think they count as spells in the same way.

Grand Lodge

Darkwolf117 wrote:
Jack R Brown wrote:
5) Ok, I think I have to check the Gunslinger listing on this, just to be sure... but it seems that Gunslingers won't be able to use Deadly Aim (at least not in the first range band), because " The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks" (PRD). This seems a little counter-intuitive, but I guess I can live with it (would be a balance issue, I assume).

This is incorrect.

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Early Firearms: ...this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim...

The fact that it targets Touch AC does not make it a Touch Attack, even if in the first range increment. That's why it is specifically called out as not being a Touch Attack.

Very cool... missed that. Well, then that answers that (come one Deadly Aim!!! -- back on my character sheet!)

Dark Archive

Jack R Brown wrote:

Ok, a couple of things I just realized tonight, perusing the CRB...

1) When you have Two Weapon Fighting, you can drawn two weapons (which must be either light or one-handed) in the time you can draw one. Thus, if you have a +1 BAB, you can draw two weapons with a move... that would have helped me out a lot... 2 full levels drawing the weapons one at a time... sheesh.

2) Picking up an item provokes... as does retrieve a stored item... so, grabbing a potion in melee can provoke twice? Take that 5-foot step!

3) And, though I knew it, there it is on p183... using a SLA provokes! Explicitly.

4) And then, a clarification... a Rogue with minor magic rogue talent can take Arcane Strike? He can cast arcane spells!!! That seems interesting, but also has a little bit of a smell to it... maybe someone can confirm this one for me.

5) Ok, I think I have to check the Gunslinger listing on this, just to be sure... but it seems that Gunslingers won't be able to use Deadly Aim (at least not in the first range band), because " The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks" (PRD). This seems a little counter-intuitive, but I guess I can live with it (would be a balance issue, I assume).

2) Picking up an item off the ground provokes, and retrieving a stored item provokes, but I'm pretty sure that if you retrieve a stored item, you already have it in your hand. Does not provoke twice.

Shadow Lodge

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Jack R Brown wrote:


2) Picking up an item provokes... as does retrieve a stored item... so, grabbing a potion in melee can provoke twice? Take that 5-foot step!
2) Picking up an item off the ground provokes, and retrieving a stored item provokes, but I'm pretty sure that if you retrieve a stored item, you already have it in your hand. Does not provoke twice.

I think he meant retrieving it provokes once, and drinking it provokes once, for provoking twice. At least that's how I took it.

Liberty's Edge

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:


I think he meant retrieving it provokes once, and drinking it provokes once, for provoking twice. At least that's how I took it.

Correct.

Sorry if I wasn't very clear in that one... shows me I shouldn't be posting that late ;)


Other points are well covered or correct.

4) No he can not use arcane strike. A rogue who takes minor magic gets a 0-lvl spell as a Spell-Like Ability. The rogue doesn't know how to cast arcane spells.

Dark Archive

Lab_Rat wrote:

Other points are well covered or correct.

4) No he can not use arcane strike. A rogue who takes minor magic gets a 0-lvl spell as a Spell-Like Ability. The rogue doesn't know how to cast arcane spells.

Yup... missed that.

In fact, that would probably mean that a Quingong Monk is not a spell caster, either... for the exact same reason.


And this is why Handy Haversacks are your best friend.

Dark Archive

CRobledo wrote:
And this is why Handy Haversacks are your best friend.

Because:

prd wrote:
Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does.

Just in case others didn't quite understand why you were saying that.

Of course, this is in addition to the 120 pounds of storage that they give for 5 pounds of encumbrance, right?


Silbeg wrote:
Of course, this is in addition to the 120 pounds of storage that they give for 5 pounds of encumbrance, right?

totally, but the retrieving items as a move action is why I recommend handy haversacks over bags of holding for 99% of all Pathfinders.

Paizo Employee Contributor

CRobledo wrote:
retrieving items as a move action is why I recommend handy haversacks over bags of holding for 99% of all Pathfinders.

Why do you recommend bags of holding for the other 1%? :)

Dark Archive

My haunted oracle doesn't benefit from a handy haversack very much, so I go with a bag of holding.


Bags of Holding can hold way more. If you just want to carry, say, an unconscious party member, they're definitely superior. ;D

Dark Archive

If you are going that way, you might as well go with a Portable Hole... since they don't have a weight limit, just 10'X10'X10' volume (or, 1000 cubic feet!)

Grand Lodge

Heh. My high level PC has both a Handy Haversack for covering usrgent needs, and a Bag of Holding to carry all the quantities of arrows and n on-urgent items beyond what he would need for the "current" encounter. Not to mention his Efficient Quivers.


Silbeg wrote:
If you are going that way, you might as well go with a Portable Hole... since they don't have a weight limit, just 10'X10'X10' volume (or, 1000 cubic feet!)

Yes, but the 20,000 gp price of admission is a bit steep for PFS :p

Shadow Lodge Contributor

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Bags of Holding can hold way more. If you just want to carry, say, an unconscious party member, they're definitely superior. ;D

Keep track of how much air you're leaving said party member though *evil GM grin*

Sovereign Court

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Bags of Holding can hold way more. If you just want to carry, say, an unconscious party member, they're definitely superior. ;D
Keep track of how much air you're leaving said party member though *evil GM grin*

I was just about to say the same thing.

Lately I found this little bit from Bless Weapon:

Bless Weapon:
In addition, all critical hit rolls against evil foes are automatically successful, so every threat is a critical hit. This last effect does not apply to any weapon that already has a magical effect related to critical hits, such as a keen weapon or a vorpal sword.

Thus spells like Keen Edge or Badger's Ferocity along with the keen weapon quality ignore this ability, whereas Improved Critical feat works like a charm, as it is not magical. That one word is crucial in determining this.

Dark Archive

Deussu wrote:


I was just about to say the same thing.

Lately I found this little bit from Bless Weapon:
** spoiler omitted **
Thus spells like Keen Edge or Badger's Ferocity along with the keen weapon quality ignore this ability, whereas Improved Critical feat works like a charm, as it is not magical. That one word is crucial in determining this.

Yeah, I recently saw that one as well... and was a little surprised by it.

But, a good one to pay attention to... and generally goes along with the idea that you can only modify the crits for a weapon once.

Shadow Lodge Contributor

Silbeg wrote:
Deussu wrote:


I was just about to say the same thing.

Lately I found this little bit from Bless Weapon:
** spoiler omitted **
Thus spells like Keen Edge or Badger's Ferocity along with the keen weapon quality ignore this ability, whereas Improved Critical feat works like a charm, as it is not magical. That one word is crucial in determining this.

Yeah, I recently saw that one as well... and was a little surprised by it.

But, a good one to pay attention to... and generally goes along with the idea that you can only modify the crits for a weapon once.

That makes me wonder - if you have a Keen Scimitar (15-20 crit range) with Bless Weapon on it, would that bit work but only for the original 18-20 range, or just not at all?

Sovereign Court

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Silbeg wrote:
Deussu wrote:


I was just about to say the same thing.

Lately I found this little bit from Bless Weapon:
** spoiler omitted **
Thus spells like Keen Edge or Badger's Ferocity along with the keen weapon quality ignore this ability, whereas Improved Critical feat works like a charm, as it is not magical. That one word is crucial in determining this.

Yeah, I recently saw that one as well... and was a little surprised by it.

But, a good one to pay attention to... and generally goes along with the idea that you can only modify the crits for a weapon once.

That makes me wonder - if you have a Keen Scimitar (15-20 crit range) with Bless Weapon on it, would that bit work but only for the original 18-20 range, or just not at all?

It doesn't work at all (RAW, at least). Seems sucky, doesn't it? Suddenly keen weapons aren't so yummy I suppose. ;)

Grand Lodge

That's why you have a backup non-keen weapon.


It says "This last effect" I think that implies "all critical hit rolls against evil foes are automatically successful, so every threat is a critical hit"

So your weapons would crit 15-20, just a non-keen would auto confirm.

Sczarni

words are a crutch for the weak!

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