Which natural attacks are primary and which are secondary

[geldoon]

when reading the monster description in the Bestiary how can I tell which natural attacks are the primary and which are the secondary? For example: the entry for melee attacks for the grizzly bear reads: 2 claws +7 (1d6+5 plus grab), bite +7 (1d6+5). Does that mean that the 2 claws are primary attacks and so at the full BAB and the bite is a secondary attack and so at the BAB -5 or are all three primary attacks (2 claws and a bite. Just for clarification I do know that the 2 claws entry is 2 separate claw attack both at the full BAB.

[kyrt-ryder]

Look closely.

-5 BAB has a -5 penalty to hit applied.

When you see an NPC, it might say Sword +12, +7 (2d6+6) for example.

They're all primary natural attacks.

[SkyHaussmann]

i present you with a table! TADA!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks

EDIT: Also, the one exception is if a monster only has one attack type and it is listed as secondary on the table, it is treated as primary cause its the only one.

[geldoon]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Look closely.

-5 BAB has a -5 penalty to hit applied.

When you see an NPC, it might say Sword +12, +7 (2d6+6) for example.

They're all primary natural attacks.

So the description will say there is a -5 BAB and that's how you tell it's a secondary or are you saying the -5 is already add in to secondary attacks? And the grizzly's 2 claw and bite are both primary so I roll all three in a round as a standard action and they are all at the full BAB?

Or is it only a standard action when using only the 2 claws and a full attack action to use all three?

[geldoon]

SkyHaussmann wrote:

i present you with a table! TADA!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks

Yes I seen that table but wasn't quite sure what to make of it. So your saying the type of attack (claw, bite, hoof etc..) determines whether or not it's a primary or secondary. I thought it may change from creature to creature. That make things much easier. So the grizzly gets three attacks in a standard action, correct?

Why isn't that table in the Bestiary or Cor Rulebook? or is it?

[SkyHaussmann]

Ah I see what you're getting at.
I'll illustrate with examples.
If you make only one attack then its a standard, if you use any more then one then you're doing a full attack action.

For the grizzly
2 claws +7 (1d6+5 plus grab), bite +7 (1d6+5)
Means that the claws and bite are both primaries, and on a full attack you can get one bite AND two claw attacks.

Example for a case where there are secondaries: Adult black dragon has:
bite +21 (2d6+10), 2 claws +20 (1d8+7), 2 wings +15 (1d6+3), tail +15 (1d8+10)

Bite and Claws are primaries, wings and tail are secondaries, see how the -5 is already factored into the wings and tail.

The bite is one higher than the claws cause the dragon has weapon focus (bite)

[geldoon]

Ah...just found the table in the Bestiary (pg 302 _ in case anyone else is having the same problem i.e. not reading the whole book first :) ), apologies for wasting everybody's time and thanks for the answers.

[geldoon]

SkyHaussmann wrote:

Ah I see what you're getting at.

I'll illustrate with examples.
If you make only one attack then its a standard, if you use any more then one then you're doing a full attack action.

For the grizzly
2 claws +7 (1d6+5 plus grab), bite +7 (1d6+5)
Means that the claws and bite are both primaries, and on a full attack you can get one bite AND two claw attacks.

Example for a case where there are secondaries: Adult black dragon has:
bite +21 (2d6+10), 2 claws +20 (1d8+7), 2 wings +15 (1d6+3), tail +15 (1d8+10)

Bite and Claws are primaries, wings and tail are secondaries, see how the -5 is already factored into the wings and tail.

The bite is one higher than the claws cause the dragon has weapon focus (bite)

That clears it up perfectly, thanks very much.