RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. |
So, reading the Charger animal archetype (from the new Animal Archive book), it's definitely obvious that it was written with the Cavalier's animal companion in mind (especially since it gives your mount your Challenge bonuses). However, the way it's written, a Cavalier's animal companion can't take this archetype (or any of the others except Totem Guide, for that matter) because of this:
A cavalier does not take an armor check penalty on Ride checks while riding his mount. The mount is always considered combat trained and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. A cavalier’s mount does not gain the share spells special ability.
Since the Charger archetype replaces share spells with mounted challenge, a Cavalier's mount can't take the archetype, since they don't have share spells to begin with.
I'm sure this was an oversight on the part of the writers, but it definitely needs to be FAQ'd. Please hit the FAQ button!!!
Kind of. These types of books don't generally receive errata due to them not receiving a second print run so I am guessing this is the best we'll get. Sucks about its use in PFS though...
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I believe Cavaliers will still get it. The only reason a Cavalier's mount doesn't gain the share spells ability is because the Cavalier has no spells whatsoever to make use of the ability. Just because a mount doesn't gain the ability, it doesn't mean it cannot be replaced with a secondary ability that an archetype replaces it with.
The paladin mount doesn't have the Share Spells feature, they gain Light Armor Proficiency instead. You cannot trade out something you don't have.
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Kind of. These types of books don't generally receive errata due to them not receiving a second print run so I am guessing this is the best we'll get. Sucks about its use in PFS though...
Wouldn't hurt to try and get some dev attention on the subject though. Or post the designer link you have here over in one of the PFS thread areas and see if you can get Michael Brock or one of those guys to make an official PFS exception/exemption for the ability.
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Very true. They fixed the Winter Witch prestige class after issues were discovered in it. Honestly, the best place to ask about it is probably the product discussion thread, as this is a known mistake and not really just a question.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Very true. They fixed the Winter Witch prestige class after issues were discovered in it. Honestly, the best place to ask about it is probably the product discussion thread, as this is a known mistake and not really just a question.
Fair point. I'll make a post over there to the same effect.
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***It's just a matter of Rules-as-Written vs Rules-as-Herp-Derp-This-is-What-the-Creators-Meant-and-it-Takes-2-Brain-Cel ls-to-Realize-That.
Only the Cavalier gets screwed, Paladins are fine. And it's more important than your off-handed insult would make it seem to have this addressed. For Pathfinder Society play RAW is very important for maintaining consistency of rulings regardless of where someone goes to play or who GM's. As of right now, this ability doesn't work for the cavalier even though it was practically intended for the class. Getting this formally addressed allows people who play in PFS instead of home games to make best use of the material.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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The way I see it is like this:
All animal companions, mounts for the Cavaliers, the Paladin mounts, the Ranger companions, etc, all go off of the list created here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions
This is the BASE companion guide. All companions get all the abilities listed no matter what. What changes them are the particular class or archetype the companion is bonded to. Now, you can take this two ways:
A: The character class gains primary importance in changing the abilities of the companion. This means that if you're a Cavalier or a Paladin, then, technically, yes. You do not have Share Spells to trade out for the Charger archetype, thus making the archetype useless for those classes.
or
B: The archetype gains primary importance and is then further changed by the character class afterwards. This means that the Share Spells ability is first replaced by the Charger archetype and is thus no longer Share Spells. It's the archetype's ability instead, thus not effected by the Cavalier's specifications.
It's just a matter of Rules-as-Written vs Rules-as-Herp-Derp-This-is-What-the-Creators-Meant-and-it-Takes-2-Brain-Cel ls-to-Realize-That.
Hey, I totally agree, but for those of us who play in PFS games this mistake is going to keep you from being able to use the archetype, which stinks. I agree that in any home game the GM would look at it and be like "duh, you can take it" but that doesn't help with strict rules systems like PFS.
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Sorry. I've never played in a Pathfinder Society game before. All campaigns I've ever played in usually tend to go RAI rather than RAW for certain rules question such as this. So I maybe rather biased on that aspect. The "insult" was mainly pointed at the people who constantly go off of RAW even though RAI makes so much more sense. I've had to deal with these people so often that I kinda snap at points. But now that I know that it's an entirely different situation where an entire style of the game is concerned, then yeah, this is definitely something where RAW is drastically in need of a change. Sorry for the outburst.
No worries, I get where you're coming from. The nice thing about Pathfinder is that the guys at Paizo are super involved with their customer base and usually do their best to address stuff like this when it comes to their attention. Hopefully someone like SKR, Michael Brock, Jason Buhlman, or James Jacobs will chime in and clear this up. PFS will abide by rules clarifications posted in the forums if you can show them. It's why I keep a list of all of the dev clarifications that I run into. Cheapy is pretty awesome about always having the right link as well.