Fallen Planetar as the Main Villain in a Campaign.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Sovereign Court

Curious to see other people's thoughts on this, discuss.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Depends what you're going to do with it. At one point I had a fallen planetar (or perhaps it might be more accurate to say that it was pushed) as a subsidiary foe in a campaign that never materialized. They're pretty tough.

Sovereign Court

Should he worship an evil god? Should he have forsaken his previous god? What forced him to "fall"? Was he tempted? Was it done out of thinking he was doing the greater good? Should he still look the part, or should he have blackened and battered wings and a sickly green glow?


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That depends a lot on the story you're going for.

If I was going to use a fallen celestial as the Big Bad, he would be convinced what he was doing was for the Greater Good. That's the most compelling story, to me. As such, I'd say he looked more or less the same - it'd be too clear he'd strayed from the righteous path if he woke up one day and his wings were black and tattered, unless he's already been kicked out of some sort of celestial organization for his actions, and persisted because he Knew Better.

To steal from Terry Pratchett, the difference between a fallen celestial and a regular one should be the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.

Sovereign Court

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SteelDraco wrote:
To steal from Terry Pratchett, the difference between a fallen celestial and a regular one should be the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters.

See, now THAT gives me lots of ideas ... I'm thinking of 3rd Season of BSG, where the humans were on New Caprica and blurring the lines of what was right and wrong with their "freedom fighter" methods.

Dark Archive

Old, but strong: Trias from Planescape: Torment.


You could make it part of a civil war in heaven. Supernatural did a storyline with factions of angels fighting, and it looks like that was inspired by a Vertigo Comics storyline where god went missing and the angels had to figure out what to do with the big boss MIA. The players might have a chance to pick sides, each side would view themselves as the good guys and the other faction(s) as bad guys.


Ever saw that Keaneau Reaves movie Constantine?

Silver Crusade

ponders if Tilda Swinton could pull off the green alopecia look

It could go in any number of ways. You could wind up with a villain that falls flat, or one that truly gets under the players' skin as a complete monster, or a truly tragic villain that actually hurts to have to fight.

With planetars often being military leaders, s/he could have suffered some terrible loss that pushed them over the edge. Maybe they're out to put an end to the suffering they've seen by forcing a sort of "war to end all wars". Maybe they've become so guilt-ridden over the loss of those under their command that they are willing to go to any length to see them restored.

Or maybe it's one that has lost sight of what they're fighting for. Maybe it's all become about the war and they've forgotten about the "why" of it. They're willing to do things like endanger entire worlds to pull off pre-emptive strikes aginst the Lower Planes.

Maybe they've gone mad and are doing what they do in the desperate hope that they'll earn their way back into the heavens. Absolution at any cost.

Do any of those loyal to this planetar before his fall follow him/her still? Are all of those celestials fallen as well?

Are any celestials hunting this planetar? Or there any trying to bring them back to the fold?

How does this planetar relate with other outsiders, particularly fiends?

Does this planetar still think of himself as good? Has she gone full tilt into wickedness?

Grand Lodge

There has already been an adventure with such a thing.

It is:
Shackled City. Although I think he was a fallen solar, actually.

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:

There has already been an adventure with such a thing.

** spoiler omitted **

I've heard a lot of groups found that one to be an emotional knife-twister as well. :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Human Diversion wrote:
Should he worship an evil god? Should he have forsaken his previous god? What forced him to "fall"? Was he tempted? Was it done out of thinking he was doing the greater good? Should he still look the part, or should he have blackened and battered wings and a sickly green glow?

Since the campaign never went anywhere, I didn't really flesh this out, but I had a non-Golarion setting in which each of the planets had a guardian planetar and the sun had a guardian solar. Obvious, right? The solar and the planetar associated with the Earth-analog/campaign world had fallen in love, though, and the rest of the planetars (whose combined power was enough to manage this trick) had punished them for this transgression by forcibly incarnating the solar into a mortal (but extremely long-lived) body and stripping the Earth-analog planetar of some fraction of its power. The planetar was really more emo than evil at this point; it didn't have wings any more, and it spent most of its time moping around and not keeping up with its guardianship. Various of its servitors were intriguing to take its place. I think I was going to set up the near endgame so that the PCs would have to defeat the planetar to get it to pay attention to them, or something; I hadn't finished thinking it through. The other possibility was that one of its servitors had finally succeeded, so the PCs would fight something with the power of a planetar in order to free the real one.

Shadow Lodge

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Your planetar definitely needs to *believe* he's the good guy. Even if his god has severed all ties, he still believes his actions are serving him/her. When he succeeds in his evil plan, everyone will see that he was right and he'll be allowed back into Heaven...

However, I would initially present him to the players as one-dimensionally evil. As the campaign progresses, reveal his motivations to the players in drips and drabs. By the time you get to the big fight, the players should understand his perspective to the point where they might even be slightly ambivalent about opposing him. When everything is over, they should end up pitying him more than hating him.

Think Tilda Swinton in Constantine or Christopher Walken in The Prophesy.


The quote that's been running through my mind for this whole discussion is from Stephen R. Brust on his novel To Reign In Hell

Quote:
From all of my readings on the revolt of the angels, two things are clear; God is omnipotent, and Satan is not a fool. There seems to be a contradiction there...


I think there's one in another adventure as well

spoiler:
Lord of the Iron Fortress , if memory serves


Well it is OBVIOUS that the Planetar is doing everything for the purposes fo good. He is not Fallen he is misudnerstood....

The lower planes have been increasing their power because of the actions of Humans and Drow and other races summoning them to the Prime Material. The only way to cut off this power base is to destroy the Prime Material. You have to take away their resources to win the war and the Prime Material has become a resource for them. Once this extended holding is taken out it should be easier to lay siege to Hell itself.

So the destruction of Humanity, dwarves, elves, and every living creature on the prime material is for the greater good... Isn't that obvious?

Sovereign Court

Ughbash wrote:

Well it is OBVIOUS that the Planetar is doing everything for the purposes fo good. He is not Fallen he is misudnerstood....

The lower planes have been increasing their power because of the actions of Humans and Drow and other races summoning them to the Prime Material. The only way to cut off this power base is to destroy the Prime Material. You have to take away their resources to win the war and the Prime Material has become a resource for them. Once this extended holding is taken out it should be easier to lay siege to Hell itself.

So the destruction of Humanity, dwarves, elves, and every living creature on the prime material is for the greater good... Isn't that obvious?

How wonderfully misguided of the Planetar! Reminds me a bit of the main bad guy from Patriot Games (he was evil ANYWAY) but he killed his friends all out of an obsession of righting a wrong.

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