http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/masterwork-transformation
Now, it affects weapons.
Monk's treat their unarmed strikes as both a weapon and natural depending which is beneficial.
So, can one not masterwork an unarmed strike of a monk?
monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
So it qualifies for targeting and effect.
Now since it is a masterwork weapon, can one now enhance it?
Even better: You decide if the object’s appearance changes to reflect this improved quality.
So you can look more awesome after casting is done. why? Remember that a monk's unarmed strike is their entire body!
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Sadly the flaw is a lack of masterwork unarmed strike.
Sadly the flaw is a lack of masterwork unarmed strike.
Because, before this spell, there was no way to get masterwork unarmed strikes.
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Yep, before this spell masterwork unarmed strikes didn't exist.
However, it still doesn't exist after this spell came out.
If the target object has no masterwork equivalent, the spell has no effect.
I would say no, making a weapon into its masterwork equivalent is actually changing the weapon INTO its masterwork equivalent. You are not actual enhancing or improving the weapon with a bonus or effect...you are changing the item from one thing into another thing entirely.
Yes being "masterwork" a weapon gives the creature wielding it a +1 to hit, but that bonus is not ON the weapon, the creature gains it for using the much better quality weapon.
If you want to argue it further, what Talonhawke said is true, there is no "masterwork Unarmed Strike"
You convert a non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent. A normal sword becomes a masterwork sword, a suit of leather armor becomes a masterwork suit of leather armor, a set of thieves’ tools becomes masterwork thieves’ tools, and so on. If the target object has no masterwork equivalent, the spell has no effect. You can affect 50 pieces of ammunition as if they were one weapon. You decide if the object’s appearance changes to reflect this improved quality.
The material component for the spell is magical reagents worth the cost difference between a normal item and the equivalent masterwork item (typically 300 gp for a weapon, 150 gp for armor, or 50 gp for a tool). If an object has multiple masterwork options (such as a double weapon, or a spiked shield that could be made masterwork as a weapon or armor), you choose one option of the object to affect (though you can cast the spell again to affect another option).
There is no equivalent masterwork item for unarmed strike, so the spell has no effect.
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Likewise there is no masterwork rope in the market but there is one for masterwork tool, I'd rule that it would work if you have a higher caster level then the monk has monk level or something, ill think of something, I feel that it should work and if the character is smart enough to think of this I'd allow it, but I'd make it hard, that is the my default method for DMing
Since when is a monk's fist an item? First sentence of the spell says "You convert a non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent." Pretty sure that this sentence nix the whole idea. For the spell to work the target needs to be an item that is also a weapon, suit of armor, shield, tool, or skill kit.
RAW it's a non-starter. I'd houserule it that you zap the monk's extremities into golem-parts. Which would probably have other weird effects later. Cause I think that would be awesome.
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To this day I STILL don't understand why the rules haven't just declared a monk's body is a Masterwork Weapon >.<
It's the anti-gay lobby.
They're trying to prevent the +1 Flaming Monk.
Bastards.
Since when is a monk's fist an item? First sentence of the spell says "You convert a non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent." Pretty sure that this sentence nix the whole idea. For the spell to work the target needs to be an item that is also a weapon, suit of armor, shield, tool, or skill kit.
1) If unarmed strikes aren't an item, then why do they have an entry in the weapon item table?
2) Unarmed strikes are a weapon: monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
Your move, Lab_Rat
That's the weapons table. Not the weapons item table. That most of them happen to be items doesn't make it the weapons item table because it includes non-items like unarmed strikes.
BTW I wouldn't let you cast masterwork transformation on an unarmed strike, mainly because there is no "masterwork equivalent" for a unarmed strike, which means the spell would have no effect.
I refer you to my point about the spell, it is completely changing the item from a "normal" item INTO a "masterwork" item
And as for your argument about Unarmed Strike being on the weapon table, show me where it says you can buy it? How much does it cost? What is its weight? Could you find an Unarmed Strike in loot?
EDIT: And again using that spell is giving the item itself no bonus, you're trying to split hairs on the fact that it is treated as a manufactured and natural for spells that "enhance" and "improve" for spells and effects that "enhance" and "improve" manufactured and natural weapons.
Those are spells like magic weapon, or magic fang, things like that, the spell we are talking about does neither it convert(s) a non-masterwork item into its masterwork equivalent. That is it, there IS NO EQUIVALENT so the spell has no effect...all this was already said in my earlier post...but seeing as how some people must have missed it here it is again
I refer you to my point about the spell, it is completely changing the item from a "normal" item INTO a "masterwork" item
And as for your argument about Unarmed Strike being on the weapon table, show me where it says you can buy it? How much does it cost? What is its weight? Could you find an Unarmed Strike in loot?
It cost nothing, check the chart, it weighs nothing, but where you buy it and loot purposes are DM dependent.
Funny enough, let us use club in your sentence:
And as for your argument about Clubs being on the weapon table, show me where it says you can buy it? How much does it cost? What is its weight? Could you find an Club in loot?
Other than weight, it comes out the same way.
Yes...you can find a club in loot...it has a weight (3 lbs)
A club is a blunt object usually made of wood.
so yea you can find that about anywhere...
But I have to give you points for trying to use my argument against me, you failed, but you get points
EDIT: And a "fist" is not the weapon as listed...its unarmed strike...please let a GM say "you find a chest, full off unarmed strikes"...other than that itself being funny as hell...if he meant it with any seriousness I would leave
You can always houserule it. You don't really need any of us to tell you how to run whats in your game. Its a good question though.
Yes he can houserule it...but this is the rules forum, he asked a question about the ruling, and we are diligently trying to answer him
@BBT that they did
Basically it's a magic manicure.
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To this day I STILL don't understand why the rules haven't just declared a monk's body is a Masterwork Weapon >.<It's the anti-gay lobby.
They're trying to prevent the +1 Flaming Monk.
Bastards.
Pfffft
Also, whoever FAQ'd Cheapy's first post is just adding to the problem SKR pointed out in another thread: It's hard to answer legit FAQs when people keep mashing the FAQ button for already answered questions and stuff that should be obvious.
@Drakkiel: you did answer his question and very well I might add, I'm just saying if he doesn't get the answer he wants from the rules forum, there's always the other option.
@Arkady Zelenka, thank you
@kyrt-ryder, if you seriously did not mean it as a troll...then I apologize, I was using the weight of the club as listed on the weapons table. And yes I realize that...the OP I don't think does though since he is adamantly trying to get the spell to work per RAW
Again...I apologize, I get a bit worked up on the forums and things that are indeed suppose to be funny make it into my mind as trolling first lol
Also, whoever FAQ'd Cheapy's first post is just adding to the problem SKR pointed out in another thread: It's hard to answer legit FAQs when people keep mashing the FAQ button for already answered questions and stuff that should be obvious.
I know that sometimes people accidentally hit FAQ when they mean favorite, and vice versa. I think people are so conditioned to just hit the "OK" button of the FAQ that it's just automatic. But yes, that was my original thought as well.
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Yes...you can find a club in loot...it has a weight (3 lbs)
A club is a blunt object usually made of wood.so yea you can find that about anywhere...
But I have to give you points for trying to use my argument against me, you failed, but you get points
EDIT: And a "fist" is not the weapon as listed...its unarmed strike...please let a GM say "you find a chest, full off unarmed strikes"...other than that itself being funny as hell...if he meant it with any seriousness I would leave
In my own little brain, "a chest full of unarmed strikes" sounds like a really cool trap. When someone opens the chest, everyone within 10' of the box is attacked by a series of force effect blows.
WHAM! WHAM! WHAM,
[evil GM cackle]
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Yes...you can find a club in loot...it has a weight (3 lbs)
A club is a blunt object usually made of wood.so yea you can find that about anywhere...
But I have to give you points for trying to use my argument against me, you failed, but you get points
EDIT: And a "fist" is not the weapon as listed...its unarmed strike...please let a GM say "you find a chest, full off unarmed strikes"...other than that itself being funny as hell...if he meant it with any seriousness I would leave
In my own little brain, "a chest full of unarmed strikes" sounds like a really cool trap. When someone opens the chest, everyone within 10' of the box is attacked by a series of force effect blows.
WHAM! WHAM! WHAM,
[evil GM cackle]
So, a trap based off of magic Missiles?
sounds fun, but still not "unarmed strikes".
So is there any solution to this problem yet?
So is there any solution to this problem yet?
Nope, people are:
A. Refusing that unarmed strikes can be masterwork because they have never seen one (but the spell insn't old so this is sacred cow argument)B. Refusing because it powers a monk (SKR's reasoning)
C. Attempts to saw by RAW it doesn't work but failing to show why in RAW it doesn't
D. Childish near end with sex jokes
So still no RAW answer.