Goblin Squad Member
|
There is a point in pretty much every game of pathfinder, when the PC's start reaching for higher powers, be they wicked or benevolent. Indeed certain faiths such as that of Lamashtu is devoted to purging yourself of your humanity.
So as a huge fan of Lamashtu, I feel the polymorph spell is pretty much a must for me from a RP stand point.
But I'd also love a corruption system which slowly change you into a demon, a ritual to turn you into a lich or some way to turn into a werewolf or any of the other awesome were-creatures.
Now I realize the latter will most likely not be in the game at launch and I am not saying it should be. None the less I wished to express my thoughts on the matter in hopes that it may become a priority once the core game is complete.
After all when you hit level twenty, in the PnP system, your well on your way to become a demi-god. It would be neat if higher leveled players had something to display their power and devotion in the game, by ascending into a higher form. Now personally I'd want it to be something akin to the Jedi knight in the original galaxies, something you really have to work hard for and perhaps something you could even receive massive penalties for to discourage everyone from becoming demons.
Maybe obtaining demonhood will lock a permanent heinous flag onto your character? Maybe becoming a devine creature keeps you from doing PvP, instead devoting your life to guide the mortals path in life. Maybe as a werewolf you sometimes lose control? You could be fighting a boss, have a careful strategy to taking him down in mind, when suddenly your character goes bersek. All control is taken from you as he goes into a wild frenzy. Powerful yes, but unreliable.
That is my thoughts on the matter. I really think it would add a lot to the game.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think polymorph has its place and can add some real flavor to the game, though the question of whether the change in form is window dressing or gives you extra abilities might be a stickier point.
I like the werewolf as well. That your good aligned character looses it every full moon and you "wake up" with a murder flag because of eating that hapless merchant you found on the road would be great RP, but you might also find your alignment and reputation taking a nose dive through no fault of your conscious mind. Though actually, if you're not aware you're doing evil, and you can't help yourself, and you're not recognizable to others as the werewolf...would your non-werewolf-self suffer those hits? There's a tangled little web for the alignment and reputation mechanics to sort out. :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think they should have more powerful abilities. Again I will compare it to the Jedi in galaxies. They were stupidly over powered, but you had to work unbelievably hard to get it. But as mentioned I'd want penalties to keep people from just taking it to become over powered.
Like I said, the demons could be free to kill on sight, they may be unable to enter certain areas. A divine creature could have powerful heals and buffs, but lack in offensive powers.
And yeah the werewolf could make you stronger, tougher, faster. Then one day you wake covered in blood. Who did you kill? Does it matter? Your stronger than you ever could dream of. What is the life of one innocent man, when this power can save countless others?
I'd mostly want this to further RP and to further increase the emigration into the game, as that last bit would suggest. :P
I'd want there to be ups and downs. I'd want the game to tell me what a terrible thing it is I have become, but unable to deny the temptation of power.
Likewise the divine would have to renounce violence perhaps. Understanding that the potential of good is in all. And that everyone deserves a chance for redemption.
Weren't the original Jedi in SWG subject to perma-death?
What if, were you to become a werewolf, lich or demon (possessed?), as a balance to having the extra power and to encourage the more powerful character to not lord their greater might all over others, if players were able to slay the werewolf, lich or demon, the player had a greater respawn timer then normal? Like the lich has to gather its essence back together, the demon has to negotiate a return to this dimension etc..? Seems to me that would prevent a player from just going wild with their greater powers.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Hm, that actually seems like a fair trade off to me. I'd even be fine with a 5-15 respawn timer. Sense the troll community would rather die than display any degree of patience. I believe that would scare off most people just looking for cheap thrills.
As for the Jedis and permanent death, that seems a bit to hardcore. And I can't fully remember, it has been ages sense I played Galaxies.
Wouldn't this just fuel godmodding? There are already people running about claiming to be ancient demigods in most games where you can just play a human. Imagine what it would be like if you could actually become a demigod as you say?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I've always approached godmoding players this way - if the game mechanics can't back up your character's claims to godliness, then my character is likely to view your character as nutty. You can emote anything you like, but if you can't back it up, then I'll have Hobs raise an eyebrow and continue about his business.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I always liked to think of godmodding along the lines of the final show down in the latest conan movie, stupid as it may be. The bad guy has just taken the mask of the dead, proudly proclaiming he is now a god amongst men. Conan couldn't care less and just stabs him in the face. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it is absolute truth, something I've noticed a lot of people have difficulty grasping.
Another is example is from the conan books (who are far superior, go read them now!) where Conan some times come up against demons or even gods. However he knows as long as it has physical form, he can stab it. Though mightier than he, Conan often won by skill, cunning or simple dumb luck.
Just because something is ancient and powerful, doesn't mean your powerless to stop it.
I always liked to think of godmodding along the lines of the final show down in the latest conan movie, stupid as it may be. The bad guy has just taken the mask of the dead, proudly proclaiming he is now a god amongst men. Conan couldn't care less and just stabs him in the face. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it is absolute truth, something I've noticed a lot of people have difficulty grasping.
Another is example is from the conan books (who are far superior, go read them now!) where Conan some times come up against demons or even god. However he knows as long as it has physical form, he can stab it. Though mightier than he, Conan often won by skill, cunning or simple dumb luck.
Just because something is ancient and powerful, doesn't mean your powerless to stop it.
Off topic*
But my favorite Conan movie was the one with Wilt Chamberlin and Grace Jones. It had the oriental wizard and the thief grouped with Conan. Although the thief was a bit too wormy for my taste, he played the thief role well. The wizard duel was well done too!
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Given that any Polymorph spell is somewhat high "level" meaning it'll not likely be seen before year two of PfO, and we're a year out before even EE happens, this likely won't be implemented for some time (almost 3 years from now). Good idea, but too early to be considered by GW until they see how PfO progresses and if they even want polymorph/alter self spell choices. Not being negative, just realistic.
@Valandur - Mako played one of the best wizards in a fantasy movie to date, though Gandalf has him beat as he is the iconic Wizard Tolkien created ;) I agree, also, the rogue/thief was off-putting/slimy. However, Conan is more a Rogue himself than Fighter. He just has the muscles to be as bad-ass as a Fighter. Howard wrote him as more a thief and opportunist who had some amazing combat skills. Bran Moc Morn was more a Fighter type. I'd also say Solomon Kane was a swashbuckling Rogue more than a Fighter, and one who, despite his Puritanical ideas, was willing to use "evil" to fight evil, as with some of his African adventures. I hate that Howard suffered depression and killed himself. Had he lived, as Lovecraft noted, he would have been even more of a giant in his fields of writing. Oh well, back to the topic...
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Personally, my favorite wizard battle in film was Eg Shen vs Lo Pan in Big Trouble in Little China, but that's just me. :)
As for Conan, Conan the Destroyer was a terrible Conan movie, but it was a great D&D movie, probably the best. It was not focused on Conan being a badass, but on the party using different skills and working together, with an appropriate betrayal from the NPC hireling that the queen insisted join the mission.
Personally, my favorite wizard battle in film was Eg Shen vs Lo Pan in Big Trouble in Little China, but that's just me. :)
That's a wicked movie! It came on a week ago and I was able to DVR it :) another old movie worth watching if you've not seen it is Near Dark. About the best vampire movie I've seen. It kicks twilight type movies butt :D. (Ok, I'll stop with the OT movie chat)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm interested in what might be possible in this direction, also. In terms of fitting in with character development:
Another problem is that in tabletop RPGs, all of the player characters are heroic adventurers. The things those types of characters do to advance and develop (exploring dangerous places, solving problems, encountering monsters, winning fights, and getting the treasure) aren't suitable for the wider range of character types you'll find in the online version of the game: characters who focus on harvesting, or crafting, or transporting, or managing towns and organizations, or being soldiers or spies or merchants. We need a character development system that will work for all these types of characters (and that will let players change their character's careers when they wish to do so).
Also, Pathfinder Online is going to focus primarily on the kinds of classic adventure content that the tabletop game features at moderate levels—exploring dangerous areas and confronting monsters and villains that are scary and dangerous, but not challenging cosmic horrors or universe-destroyers.
I interpret this to mean, that players that do "bend these rules" by some exceptional character development, perhaps must fit in with this in some way and be small number of ie proportional representation for exceptional path of development?
After all when you hit level twenty, in the PnP system, your well on your way to become a demi-god. It would be neat if higher leveled players had something to display their power and devotion in the game, by ascending into a higher form. Now personally I'd want it to be something akin to the Jedi knight in the original galaxies, something you really have to work hard for and perhaps something you could even receive massive penalties for to discourage everyone from becoming demons.
Yup it would have to be exceptional and there to be a proportional cap on the number of these imo. One idea that coincides with the Alpha Backers Reward:
All Crowdforger Alpha backers will be given the opportunity to take part in monster casting for Pathfinder Online. Monster casting is a pool of players from which we will draw participants in various monster-based events in the campaign. Participants will be able to play the roles of the monsters needed for the campaign event and will be given direction by the Goblinworks staff on playing these monsters. Being in the monster casting pool is currently the only way that players will be able to play monsters while playing Pathfinder Online. This is a special privilege and not a right—if it is abused by a member of the monster casting pool, this privilege will be taken away.
is a form of progression (mentioned elsewhere by someone else in fact) that a high level, high reputation player might gain access via some particularly exception PvE content (and a/c history) to one of these higher forms or even just "monster cast" in order to fit within the "campaign" type of content possible by such use of players? The actual process ie "pve content" might involve a truly epic path via one of the pathfinder gods or otherwise and the function of new avatar would necessarily have to tie-in heavily with PvE content promotion, along the themes of the new avatar's cosmic leaning/purpose/representation?
For eg a Dragon (plucked out of a hat) would not simply be a player with said capacities, but with in-character goals for those capacities.