I'm curious what someone else things, as I might be rather biased. I'm about to play a level 10 gestalt game, and I can't seem to like any class I haven't played a hundred times in PF before, so I dusted off a few 3.5 books, and then I remembered these two classes and the potential they can bring to a character. Now, I'm using them as a base, Dragonfire especially, instead of breath attacks, he'd be using slicing shockwaves for cone and line attacks, sort of a cursed swordsman kind of vibe.
The question is, are the six Invocation that function as at-will spell like abilities overpowered for pf? Unlike casters he has a really limited and niche'd amount of invocations, and at level ten I can have six of them, top of the hat I can think of flight, endure elements, perhaps charm and bestow curse, uncertain about the two others.
Any opinions on converting the Dragonfire adept?
Class + Int times per day Breath attacks like Alchemist bombs, or keep them at will because reflex save halves it instead of going for ac?
They were a bit OP in 3.5, but I do love them.
I'm using fighter/low templar on the main side of gestalt, so Dragonfire adept with different fluff would be perfect for the magic swordsman aspect. I'm not sure if the Invocations need any major changes, 6 "spells" at will, most buffs with 24 hr duration isn't that powerful compared to a caster with a few pearls of power, is it?
If I halved the breath damage, would it be okay to keep it at will?
They weren't OP in 3.5. I don't really see why they would be OP in Pathfinder where everyone got more goodies. They should definitely be bumped up to D8 HD.
Hmm. I never got to try them much because of real life happening, so I can't really gauge how strong a cone attack vs reflex can be compared to say, a power attacking two-handed fighter.
Thinking along the lines of archetypes, could the extra stuff from Dragonfire adept be replaced with two features from alchemist, resulting in something along lines of;
Invocation(6@10th), Breath Weapon(5d6), Mutagen(halved bonuses?), Breath Effects(3@10th), Discoveries.
These would replace some dragonic immunities such as sleep and paralization, natural ac, damage reduction/magic, a dragonic bonus feat and something else I forgot.
Concept was something like a Burden Bearer, fluffwise it could be a dragonic firebreather to a cursed magic swordsman to a energy tossing caster type. Discoveries would allow him going more dragonic(feral), cursed(limbs, organs, tumor familiar, etc), knowledgeable(simulacrum, cognitae mutagen.)
Edit: I was curious if this combination might work because discoveries aren't that combat focused as say, Rogue Talents or Oracle Revelations. Could always add a times per day use on the Breathattack akin to an alchemist's bomb or a cleric's channeling, which are the closest abilties I can find.
They were both underpowered in 3.5 (loved them anyway, of course), so in Pathfinder, they'll at best, remain underpowered (and more likely, become more underpowered). I think you're good to go.
Agreed. Just drop them in as is and go. Unlimited abilities that don't matter much out of combat and firepower that doesn't scale with the offensive ability of other classes means they have great flavor, but definitely not too much power.
==Aelryinth
Funnily enough, I have always thought that the "parallel" class to the Warlock in PF is the Alchemist.
Seems to me that they have a very similar mechanic in both having a ranged Touch attack usable a number of times a day which they then can get class abilities to modify.
YMMV
Too be honest, the PF class I found closest to the Warlock is...Soundstriker Bard.
Odd, I know, but Weird Words seems fairly close to Eldritch Blast (ranged attack usable a large number of rounds per day, scaling decently with class level)
Funnily enough, I have always thought that the "parallel" class to the Warlock in PF is the Alchemist.
Seems to me that they have a very similar mechanic in both having a ranged Touch attack usable a number of times a day which they then can get class abilities to modify.
YMMVToo be honest, the PF class I found closest to the Warlock is...Soundstriker Bard.
Odd, I know, but Weird Words seems fairly close to Eldritch Blast (ranged attack usable a large number of rounds per day, scaling decently with class level)
Weird words is actually near perfect for this as a base, think I might just use that, but keep the cone/line function because the Breath Effects depend on that range for most part. At least for the durations per day I think.
Weird words is actually near perfect for this as a base, think I might just use that, but keep the cone/line function because the Breath Effects depend on that range for most part. At least for the durations per day I think.Funnily enough, I have always thought that the "parallel" class to the Warlock in PF is the Alchemist.
Seems to me that they have a very similar mechanic in both having a ranged Touch attack usable a number of times a day which they then can get class abilities to modify.
YMMVToo be honest, the PF class I found closest to the Warlock is...Soundstriker Bard.
Odd, I know, but Weird Words seems fairly close to Eldritch Blast (ranged attack usable a large number of rounds per day, scaling decently with class level)
Er, weird words is probably 10x more powerful than an Eldritch Blast, and turning it into a cone or line super nerfs the ability.
Turns out there's a third party Pathfinder Warlock: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/war lock
Er, weird words is probably 10x more powerful than an Eldritch Blast, and turning it into a cone or line super nerfs the ability.Weird words is actually near perfect for this as a base, think I might just use that, but keep the cone/line function because the Breath Effects depend on that range for most part. At least for the durations per day I think.Funnily enough, I have always thought that the "parallel" class to the Warlock in PF is the Alchemist.
Seems to me that they have a very similar mechanic in both having a ranged Touch attack usable a number of times a day which they then can get class abilities to modify.
YMMVToo be honest, the PF class I found closest to the Warlock is...Soundstriker Bard.
Odd, I know, but Weird Words seems fairly close to Eldritch Blast (ranged attack usable a large number of rounds per day, scaling decently with class level)
Dragonfire Adept is a class that uses warlock mechanics with a dragonic vibe to it, which interests me more frankly, because I can use the cone/line effect for the concept I'm going for, which is a knight type who can create shockwaves with his swords, i.e line and cone. The breath effects are pretty swell too, focusing mostly on utility with the breath which is more interesting to me than raw power that eldritch blast focuses on, things like a breath that functions as Slow is really cool :)
Ughh, don't do sound striker. Seriously, requiring 30 die rolls per standard action is not cool. Plus, DR eats it up real fast.
Yeah, I realized that today. Honna try keeping it as it is, if it turns out too strong, I'll either halve the amount of d6's or give it times per day uses like alchemist bombs.
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Turns out there's a third party Pathfinder Warlock: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/war lock
And it is complicated, while having none of the original's flavor.
Funnily enough, I have always thought that the "parallel" class to the Warlock in PF is the Alchemist.
Seems to me that they have a very similar mechanic in both having a ranged Touch attack usable a number of times a day which they then can get class abilities to modify.
YMMV
I agree 100%. They're both on a par with the Alchemist class.
I'm actually interested in melding the two.
Dragonfire Adept + Alchemist.
Special:
Breath Weapon
Breath Effect
Invocations
Discoveries (no bomb, crafting(alchemy) stuff, mutagen, limbs, etc)
Mutagen (unsure?)
Turin the Mad has made an adjusted version of the Internal Alchemist that seems like it could easily be re-flavored into a Dragonfire Adept-like class.
Personally I think the Medium from Covenent Magic book is just a better warlock for PF. It also has some awesome flavor surrounding it.
Here's the closest thing I've found.
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They are alright but probably could be either archetype or alternate classes.
Dragonfire adept like it was mentioned before could simply be an alternate class of Alchemist focusing on enhancing his body to be draconic. Replace the bomb mechanic with the dragon breath etc...
Warlock would probably be an alternate class of Witch, just make different hexes which are more powerful than the witch hexes but in exchange for a boost of power in hexes, drop the spells to 4th level.
The main problem with either of those options is they lose the main schtick of the classes - unlimited casting. Both of those options have limited per-day abilities, and in the case of the Witch's Hexes while not limited in uses per day they are limited in how often they can affect a single target. The Warlock and DFA do not have any of these restrictions.
The Invoker from Little Red Goblin is what I use for a Pathfinder Warlock.
Doesn't really answer the OP question, but it is a nice class. Unlimited Eldritch Blast.
Ninja'd by about four posts and six months, Mhoram =)