Yeah still here... currently aches and pains from first time fencing for a few weeks, but surviving.
Kid's been up of a night a few nights running as well, but I'll get in there eventually.
Sorry to hear about the kiddo. Get some rest, man.
I travel to Atlanta Friday and hope to post but may not make it.
I then move to Staten Island Sunday. It will take a minimum of two days. I again hope to post but doubt I will be able to. The car we are taking is dubious but I have an parent's American Express Gold Card and I'm not afraid to use it!
DM PC as needed, I will check in where I can.
I hope your child gets well soon and that you can get back into the fencing without too much pain. I studied kendo in China and as my instructor and I didn't have a common language, I learned mostly through bruises. 8)
I'm likely going to be quiet for a spell. My router has up and died on me at home, and I've been having to couch-surf to get my uni work done. This week I've two units of work to write, the next due 12 hours rom now, and one 4k word assignment before I go out on my first school placement for two weeks. I'm yet uncertain where I'm going and how busy I'll be but I'll imagine I'll be pretty flat out.
Probably a bit of a bad time for radio silence considering where my interaction with the troll is heading. I trust the Halfhand's deviousness and will forward him my account details. If he's willing perhaps he could play out the rest of this encounter in my stead?
Grumble grumble Work, grumble grumble delay grumble.
Hoom. I actually have no idea where Bastagar was headed with his bluff. I'll put a bit of brain-power into it. Tell me if you have any ideas, guys.
Hilde can alter self to appear a winter fey and either demand entry to the inner tower or distract the guards long enough to attack them?
Perhaps Bastagar simply wanted to get close enough to the troll to sneak attack it? Or perhaps he wanted to turn it against the humans?
Hilde can do the alter self easily enough, but her Oath keeps her from lying. She can be cagey and avoid the truth through technicality, but cannot outright lie.
I think the intent was to just lure it away so we can fight the guards without a troll present. I shall attempt that.
Just another quick update - we've got an influx of the flu plague at home and work has been nuts over the last few weeks; and I've also finally succumbed to the depths of man-flu.
Hence the lack of updates, and I'm probably not going to get back on top of things until this weekend. So please bear with me as I wade through this - and I'm aiming to have everyone updated again on Saturday / Sunday.
So please bear with me as I wade through this
Is this a shot? Me and my bear people are so offended right now we can't even type straight.
;P
What do you mean, you people?
What do you mean, you people?
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I always feel better about having the flu once I give it to someone who doesn't have it. Pick a neighbor or a co-worker you don't particularly care for. Failing that, try to give it to 10-15 strangers. Either one will make you feel better, guaranteed.
Or maybe I'm just evil. Give it a shot, let me know how you feel - It will help me determine my alignment.
On the mend, but not quite there yet.
Made it to 3/5 campaigns updated tonight - so we will be live tomorrow just in time for the weekend :P
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Here's to hoping Kló didn't just get Anna killed off. O.o
Sorry for the wee holdup - was ambushed by a crab dinner on Wednesday and our home net going down last night. Will update over the course of the work day today.
I traveled late into the night yesterday, arriving in Savannah at 10:30. I was not prepared to post either.
I know that it's asking a lot, but can someone have Paizo get a new die roller? This one seems broken.
Need a ruling before I post my action -
If the Halfhand casts Vanish, would his invisibility be broken by Flaming Sphere's damage? If so, at what point of the turn?
For reference:
For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear.
Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth.
Based on that bit - I'm comfortable saying that directing a flaming sphere wouldn't break vanish.
FWIW, directing a flaming sphere while invisible is a printed tactic for bad guys that I've seen in at least a half-dozen scenarios or adventures published by Paizo.
Although, it's always good to ask the GM when it's a bit grey. :)
As an interesting note, I generally don't let folks read scrolls while invisible - my ruling being that you don't really see yourself with enough clarity to do so.
It's a grey area as well, though!
FYI - updates will be later tonight as both sides of the coin will need a map update and I won't be able to manage that until post-fencing.
Kelgar - it is grey, made grayer by the fact that members in an invisibility sphere can see each other as well.
Slumber Hex is a pretty tough ability. It is very powerful from 3-7th level or so, but I do not think it scales well at higher levels. Of course, most APs are 1-10th level or so.
I also think it can only work once on each NPC, so if they save against it, it can't be used again.
I agree that its a very powerful ability. It would be extremely powerful even if it were limited to x+int mod uses per day the way a lot of other abilities are.
It probably none of my business, I just wanted to chime in on the subject. I'd rather not see it go away completely as it's a foundation for the witch class, but it absolutely trivializes many encounters. It won't be long however, until The Halfhand has more save or suck spells and when those work, they do the same thing.
Tough choices, I'm sure.
It is limited to once per day per NPC, but the primary issue for me is the fact that using the hex doesn't deplete any resources for the witch.
All of the other potential save or suck, or even things like Paladin smites - are all limited resources that dwindle when the ability is used - or have other limitations to take into consideration.
Take a beasty Frost Giant. It's CR 9, over 130 hit points and hits like a mack truck... but it has a 50% fail rate vs a DC 16 Slumber hex. 50% chance to eliminate a Frost Giant... and that's just at the current level.
By the time you're up at 7th level or so, Snjorinn will likely have a +4 Con bonus from somewhere - maybe invest another feat to boost the DC a bit as well. DC 19 and the giant fails it's save about 60% of the time.
In a single standard action - a potentially bruising encounter with a Frost Giant or similar beastie is completely eliminated over half the time, with no cost to party resources.
Whilst I agree that it is powerful, it is one of the staple Hexes of the Witch class. Slumber aside, though, there are other powerful combinations - for example, Misfortune + Cackle, means that one opponent per round is going to be rolling twice for *everything* until they die...
Slumber is also ineffective against certain opponents (such as undead, constructs, swarms, and elves).
That said, if you want to house rule that it is usable 3+Con modifier times per day, I would be willing to go along with that, provided that I could get another, relatively low-powered, hex to offset the loss.
(Such as Cauldron.)
I also would like to opportunity to re-jig the character slightly, as he was kind-of built around the use of Slumber...
Even at 3 + Con modifier per day, I think you'll still use it as the first and only hammer against anything that looks powerful that you meet yes? - which doesn't really solve what I see as the primal issue here.
Misfortune and cackle are powerful, yes - but not 'make a single d20 roll or you're dead' powerful. It's a save or suck, that's only enforced by requiring the witch to burn a move action every round to maintain it - which is a decent anchor in my eyes.
Even if we houseruled it down to a limited use - I wouldn't be giving you a free hex just because of that...
What does the rest of the party think? - is it fun to have the relevance of combats reduced to: "Did it save against slumber? ... nope... well what's next?"
*shrugs*
Well, I am happy to rebuild Snjorrin :-)
Hmmm.
As a GM of Pathfinder Society, I've certainly seen Slumber hex abused in various encounters where the party encounters a single interesting enemy (which is not an undead, construct, elf, etc). The witch wins initiative and goes for the "I win" button that is slumber hex and it comes down to the dice, but usually it ends up feeling like a coin toss if the enemy falls asleep.
Some times, folks have driven an hour to play a game for 4-5 hours and you can kind of see it in their eyes when their fighter/barbarian essentially loses the chance to go toe-to-toe with some sort of interesting melee opponent.
It's those times I'm not sure about Slumber Hex, but in that same vein, the bard/wizard/etc could've arrived packing a Hideous Laughter, Color Spray, etc.
I don't have an issue with Sleep or Deep Slumber so much since it's a full round action, and I play most bad guys as seeing a wizard doing a long cast and walking up and whacking them (where it's practical) so sleep comes with some risk.
I think if I ended up with a slumber hex witch in a home campaign, I'd likely end up tweaking the encounters that were designed with a single big foe to ensure there were at least a handful of minions. Because after all, it just takes a single CR 1/2 minion to wake the big slumbered bad guy up and get him/her/it back into the combat.
TLDR: I think slumber hex feels powerful when there's poor encounter design and it robs the other party members of feeling like they contribute. But there's plenty of one-shot mechanics. Kelgar could just have easily walked up to the troll and gotten a critical hit for enough damage to drop the troll in a single action. As such, I'd think we could easily keep going on and see how it plays out. In my mind, slumber hitting is just the same as Bastagar or Halfhand casting a save or suck of their own, or any of the melee types confirming a nice big critical hit.
One more thought.
In home campaigns, I universally use the hero point system which helps smooth the game out (in my opinion). So, the PCs get all the benefits of hero points, but I also use "villain points" for various named bad guys. Each bad guy only gets a single villain point, and only the bad guys that are meant to be "memorable encounters".
Because of this, my casters are a little more wary, because as a GM I can choose to add +8 (before I roll) or +4 (after I know the result) to any roll. Certainly, any GM with a screen is free to fudge a saving throw to maximize his table's fun. It's not very cinematic when the group encounters the villain at the end of an AP chapter and they last a single round when our nightly gathering had an hour budgeted for an epic brawl. Thus, villain points have really solved this problem and made fights more exciting and drawn out and helped avoid a single shot death when everyone would be happier with a longer fight. Again, not every monster gets a villain point, just the ones that are meant to be interesting.
Snorjinn - I appreciate the offer of rejigging; and given more my own conniptions and palpitations... probably best if we look to do that. I know that slumber isn't great against some of the other threats (re: fey, outsiders, etc) - but those threats are the ones the rest of the party is also well equipped to deal with.
An instagib critical hit is a rare occurence (as in to first roll a crit threat, then confirm, then roll high enough damage to kill) - and provides for a great cinematic description.
In my first ever PbP I had a 2nd level enlarged Dwarven Alchemist score back to back crits with an earthbreaker and proceed to destroy both the BBEG and the Dragon right hand man with two 9d6 damage hits... but that was both epic and unlikely.
I've had a barbarian of mine charge off a thirty foot high cliff to do a Death from Above raging greataxe charge that crit and dropped a troll in a single hit... and that was epic, and risky.
But a slumber hex... results in a character falling asleep, followed by a very high DC Fort save or die. There isn't really a way to describe it cinematically, and neither is there too much risk on behalf of the hexer (as thirty feet is still a goodly distance).
I've had a barbarian of mine charge off a thirty foot high cliff to do a Death from Above raging greataxe charge that crit and dropped a troll in a single hit... and that was epic, and risky.
Hail Ragnar! And Hail Ragnar's Skäggig!
Truly an epic moment :)
Wow, now that I think about it... All the one-hit-kill crits I've seen in my games were against the PCs (or against 8hp mooks). So many PCs have died on the first session because of an errant scythe or axe hitting them for upwards of 40 damage in a single swing. My poor players. They never seem to have luck with those kinds of things.
Thought I'd share Mark's epic moment with anyone interested... a true high point in my game (thusfar :)
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Just replying in here to minimize blue-text posts in the game thread. Certainly not ignoring the comments. :)
Mostly because Kló (for the most part) is throwing you guys blind. I’d think he’s close enough to the wall not to have good visibility. So the fact that no one has fallen back down this side (like the initial attempt) is a reason to try to mimic the first successful attempt as closely as possible.
I’m hoping that Anna wouldn’t actually take damage from Skäne’s landing, even if it wasn’t a graceful one. But hey, even if she does (and assuming it’s not enough to outright kill her), she’ll at least have him standing protection over her until we can get her back on her feet … ya know, assuming we walk away from this thing at all. It does seem to be an exercise in ever-escalating difficulty.
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No damage to Annalisa, and yep Skane still gets a full rounds worth of actions.
I have never been a fan of save or suck abilities because monsters seem to save too often and I lose valuable spells. All of this is negated with hexes which can be cast over and over.
However, hexes are there to make up for a witch's severely limited spell selection. Of course, restricted spell selection doesn't matter much if you're interested in enchantment or illusions, both of which witches cover well.
I'm of a very mixed mind about the slumber hex. It is the lynch pin ability of the witch. It is also awfully strong to get to use an infinite number of times daily.
I do not think limiting it to 3+stat bonus/daily is the correct answer. I don't think outlawing it or witches in general is the answer. I do like the idea of villain points for major NPCs. If they were matched by hero points for us, it might help with the random scary as hell crits such as the one taken by Halfhand this troll or Hilde last troll.
I am not bothered by one character landing a lucky spell unless something like this happens over and over. I really don't like to see someone have to reroll a character however as that has happened to me far too often. If he wants to play a witch and witches are allowed, he should play a witch. If witches get the slumber hex then he should get the slumber hex.
In the end, it's Voice's game and it is his responsibility to make the decision to allow witches or not. It's a tough choice and one I don't envy. Villain points sound a good compromise, but cause more effort on Voice's part. I don't feel it is my right to suggest he put in more effort.
I guess you'll have to mark me down as a meh.
A few points of contrast / response:
Witches don't have a severely limited spell selection. Their spell list is different to a wizards, but no less powerful. The hexes aren't there to 'make up' for the lack of spell variety. You can make a decent blaster witch as an example - they get lightning bolt / black tentacles / etc.
Slumber is not the lynch pin ability. It is one ability among many - which some witches build around. I've seen devestatingly effective witches that don't go near it. A fortune / misfortune / cackle combo is great - as is not even focusing on offense hexes and instead going with flight and cauldron and the like.
Villain / hero points I dislike in general - so they won't come in.
In the end Snjorinn was happy to rebuild into a blackblade / hexcrafter so that solves the impasse.
I can see what you've said. I still think witch spells are very limited, certainly compared to the wizard though. It seems to me that the wizards whole reason for being is their spell versatility. Everyone gets to have opinions though.
I mispoke on saying the slumber hex is the lynch pin ability. Hexes are the lynch pin ability. Slumber is one of them and the ability to use the hexes over and over can make quite a few of them OP.
I have only played with hero points once and I liked them. They kept people from failing saves or receiving crits and dying. I am not a fan of the wildly random aspects of d20 but maybe I'm alone in that. So be it however. 8)
I'm glad you reached an easy agreement. I dislike arguing more than anything.
I know one local PFS player who build a witch and played it several levels (to 6th or 7th I believe) before finally retiring him out of frustration due to the limited spell selection.
Unfortunately for him, he seemed to always be playing scenarios with undead, constructs, elementals, vermin/swarms and the like. I forgot what his patron was, but it wasn't one that gave him any interesting evocation spells to round out his spell list. I remember snowball and flurry of snowballs were both used, but without Precise Shot, it was a bit tough to land.
I have yet to play one myself, which is something I should remedy one of these days.
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Witches are limited? First time I've heard that one.
They get every healing spell, a million enchantment and divination spells as well as blasting spells like Lightning Bolt/Cone of Cold/Chain Lightning, a whole load of save-or-dies (Baleful Polymorph, flesh-to-stone) and control spells such as stinking cloud, black tentacles and the like. They've got all the same summons as wizards too, if they want to go that route. Scrying, teleporting, flying, utility out the wazoo. Their base spell list is amazing, and that's before you even include things like patrons.
The only thing they CAN'T do is buff out allies, create illusions or animate dead (They can also do these things if they really want to through patrons and hexes). Specialist wizards face the same limitations, if not more. Giving up two whole schools is huge.
UMD is also a class skill if they're super desperate.
Was going to update tonight... then my kids decided to not go to sleep until tomorrow...
I would have to say that the witch spells are limited because there is a list of which ones they are allowed to take and that list does not include all of them.
You may like the spells. You may even consider them a good sampling of different types of spells. They are still limited however.
Even when wizards specialize, they still have access to their prohibited schools, they simply pay extra. The advantage of wizards, and a lesser extent clerics, is that they have access to drastically more spells than the other classes. They may not use them. They may not even be worth using. They still have access to them however.
I've played witches, wizards and whatnot, but that's not really the point. The point is, their spells are limited and that is made up for with hexes. Some hexes may be overly strong while others may be a waste of time. I still think hexes are the lynch pin ability of the witch however.
Limited, yes. Severely limited or very limited, no.
A short note - I will be entertaining a school friend coming through Malaysia over the next couple of days so shall be scarce on the forums.
Still in recovery mode from visitors and a fairly draining weekend. Posts shall come hopefully tomorrow. Just letting you know.
Nae bother Haggis - as & when :)
Dealing with hopefully a 48 hour bug and 40 degree spiking fevers... good fun :)
After a few days of parenting fun... I should hopefully get some sleep tonight and be back to it tomorrow.
I appreciate the patience with my sorry underachieving self.
Life happens. I've had a month of crazy personal life stuff, as well (which heavily impacted my ability to post).
Hope things get back to normal for you, man. As Dory said ... just keeping swimming. :)