Craft: Alchemy and alchemists identifying potions

[Saint_Meerkat]

After searching the message boards, this came up a couple of times, but there was no definitive response.

In a PFS game I was running yesterday, an alchemist was rolling Craft: Alchemy checks to identify found potions. This morning, it was pointed out to me that he may have been interpreting that ability incorrectly.

RAW states:

d20pfsrd.com wrote:

In addition, an alchemist can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to make such a check.

The clause "as if using detect magic" seems to muddle what had been, up to that point, a clear rule. Detect magic doesn't allow you to identify a potion. It allows you to identify auras. I believe the phrase "As if using Spellcraft" would also have been easily understood.

I would house-rule this in favor of the player. But since this is PFS, I feel like I need to make sure I'm being consistent with the larger community.

Does an Alchemist's successful Craft: Alchemy check identify the potion? Or does it identify the potion's auras?

[Ciaran Barnes]

There is a Spellcraft check, but Detect Magic is what allows the particular use of the skill. Read what appears under the "3rd round" heading of the spell.

[Joesi]

When I first saw this ability for the alchemist I thought it was pretty cool.

But then I noticed that perception can seemingly do the same thing (or even better than it if one was to interpret in the way that you're bringing up), making it not so unique or useful since someone else in a party (or even the alchemist) is bound to have perception through the roof.

Anyway, on topic:
I'll pull the quote that Ciaran Barnes is talking about.

Quote:

3rd Round: ... If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).

Quote:

This skill is also used to identify the properties of magic items in your possession through the use of spells such as detect magic and identify. The DC of this check varies depending upon the task at hand.

Quote:

Identify the properties of a magic item using detect magic = 15 + item's caster level

So essentially this skill is rather crappy in my view, since a wizard/sorcerer etc. with spellcraft or perception could do the same thing as this alchemist's ability.

But that's aside the point; the rules do state how this works.

On a side note, I wonder if this would work on elixirs. RAW I guess it's pretty clear, but it seems to make good sense that it should be allowed. It also makes sense to houserule that poisons can be identified in this same fashion; I don't think the game rules covers it at all (be it craft alchemy, or perception, the two most likely candidates)

[catdragon]

As a side note, identifying potion with perception is based on the caster level of the potion, not the spell level. Not much of a difference, granted, but it does make it marginally harder to identify a potion with Perception.

Example:
potion of cure light wounds: Spellcraft DC 16, Perception DC 16
potions of cure moderate wounds: Spellcraft DC 17, Perception DC 18
potion of cure serious wounds: Spellcraft DC 18, Perception DC 20

[Dave Justus]

Perception is via taste, which also means if it happens to be poison...

[Cavall]

That the guy immune to poison says "ew?"

[Diego Rossi]

catdragon wrote:

As a side note, identifying potion with perception is based on the caster level of the potion, not the spell level. Not much of a difference, granted, but it does make it marginally harder to identify a potion with Perception.

Example:
potion of cure light wounds: Spellcraft DC 16, Perception DC 16
potions of cure moderate wounds: Spellcraft DC 17, Perception DC 18
potion of cure serious wounds: Spellcraft DC 18, Perception DC 20

Spellcraft wrote:

Identify the properties of a magic item using detect magic 15 + item’s caster level

A potion is a magic item and there isn't a special exception changing the DC.

Perception wrote:

Identify the powers of a potion through taste 15 + the potion‘s caster level

As Justus pointed out, that exposes you to a possible poison and to other adverse effects if the liquid is a cursed item.

Alchemist Alchemy9In addition, an alchemist can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to make such a check.[/quote wrote:

For a class that doesn't have cantrips, that is a useful ability.

Cavall wrote:

That the guy immune to poison says "ew?"

My druid wisdom says: "Drinking unknown glowing liquids isn't a good idea, even if you are immune to poisons."

[MrCharisma]

Also Alchemists add their level to Craft:Alchemy checks. This means they can skip putting a points into a skill to identifying potions (a 10th level alchemist gets INT+10 with no investment). Or if they invest in Craft:Alchemy - that 10th level alchemist gets INT+20+3 (class skill bonus). It's like a baby version of Versatile Performance.

[Cavall]

When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an alchemist gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the Craft (alchemy)

Are you creating? No.

[MrCharisma]

Oh I totally missed those 5 words, well ignore my post then